Can you check this letter please. Paragon

[Debt buster]

I just want to make sure this letter doesn't admit any liability to this debt. I have a long way to go until it's statute barred, but don't want to restart the clock.

 

 

29th June 2009

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account xxxxxxxxxxxxx. Account in dispute.

 

Without Prejudice.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 22nd June 2009 regarding the alleged debt to your company. Please note that I do not acknowledge this debt and will not enter into any further correspondence with you on the matter.

 

Failure to supply a true copy of the CCA.

 

As you are aware, your company are unable to supply a true copy of the consumer credit agreement from Universal Credit, although you have supplied a reconstructed version to comply with a request for a copy. The reconstructed version is not legally binding. Further to this, even if you if you can locate the original, many Universal Credit agreements have technical errors which make them unenforceable along with the debts you purchased from Colonial Finance.

 

 

Change to CCA - Consideration

 

On February 15th 2000, Paragon wrote to all customers behind with payments, myself included. The letter requested post dated cheques and a standing order mandate for future payments. In return Paragon offered to consolidate arrears and report the account as up to date. I have in my possession the case notes from Northampton County Court regarding an appeal by Paragon to charge interest after judgement. The defendant argued that the above agreement was consideration and as such modified the original credit agreement. . The transcript asks whether the variation of a loan agreement fell within s 82 of consumer credit act 1974 and refers to . “On 15th February 2000 a standard automated letter was sent by the Claimant to all of its customers who were in arrears and making payments by cheque or cash, in order to offer an incentive to customers to pay by standing order. A copy of this standard letter is attached at exhibit MAH1. The terms of the letter are self-explanatory. It requested: 1 The return of a Standing Order Mandate; 2 A cheque for February's payment and post dated cheque for March.”. I am aware that Paragon dropped the appeal for interest after judgement rather than argue the technical points of this.

 

 

Lack of transparency - Unfair relationship test.

 

CAB agreed with Universal Credit to freeze interest on the account. Paragon then agreed to continue with the reduced payments while adding interest which was considerably higher than the monthly payment. Your company lacked transparency on this, refused to give balances (UC wrote the balance on the top of every letter). In fact the only way I discovered the interest was by paying £25 for a statement, even then I had to call several times to actually get the statement. I am aware I am not alone, I have come across several other cases with exactly the same circumstances. I consider the practices border on extortion.

 

 

 

Your company, fully aware that interest was being added, continued to accept token payments which made up a tiny fraction of the monthly interest being added. Your company kept myself and others completely in the dark with regards to charging interest. Your company repeatedly refused to give balance figures when requested to do so.

 

 

Interest added after CAB agreement

 

At the time I ran into difficulty with the payments, East Northamptonshire CAB made agreements with yourself and other companies to freeze the interest and accept token payments. You claim to have never agreed to this, although CAB still have the records regarding my account as I have visited them several times since.

 

Payments made on the account total more than the original sum to be repaid by a considerable amount. In fact, had you kept your promise to freeze interest the account would have been paid in full many years ago. Instead you continued to add interest and payments to date total over £15,000, yet you still claim the balance is over £11,000.

 

£26,000 plus for repayment of a £4200 debt would fail the unfair relationship test in a court of law.

 

Summary

 

Your recent letter asks for a proposal for a full and final settlement. In my experience lenders only go down this route when they are fully aware a debt is not enforceable. As mentioned above, payments made on the account have fully repaid the original sum plus a considerable amount of interest and charges.

 

You have recently been telephoning me on a daily basis, despite my asking for you to communicate by letter and stop calling me. I was advised you would call me every day until I paid. This is harassment and as such I have now made a formal complaint against you under the Consumer Protection from Unfair regulations act 2008.

 

A recent letter also threatened a home visit. There is only an implied license under English common Law for people to visit me at my home without prior permission, postmen and people asking direction etc (Armstrong v Sheppard and Short Ltd 1959, per Lord Evershed). Therefore take note that under English common Law I revoke license for you, or your reprehensive, to visit me at my property, if you do so you will be liable for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to Police attendance.

 

 

As you obviously have no intention of stopping the constant harassment for this non enforceable debt, please note I consider the account in dispute, as such you may not process my data or pass the account to a third party. Nothing contained in this letter should be taken as acknowledgement of any amount outstanding.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[clemma]

I am presuming they have sent you an unenforceable CCA. If so, there is no need to go into as much detail as you have. Just put the account into dispute. At the end of the day, no matter what you write to them, they will more than likely ignore it anyway

 

You can also include a copy of the telephone harassment letter/no visits letter too.

 

However, if you chose to send the above, then I can't see a problem with it. I'm not sure whether it would re-start the clock though - you don't actually admit to the debt, but you do mention enough to admit knowing about the debt......maybe someone else can clarify for sure.

Edited June 30, 2009 by clemma

[clemma]

The letters you can send:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully

 

-HARASSMENT WARNING-

 

WARNING;PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997;

 

WARNING; COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003, S127.

 

TELEPHONE NUMBER

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[Debt buster]

Thanks Clemma.

 

 

The background is they have verbally told me (the collection manager at Paragon) that they do not have the CCA. Yet they say they will continue to collect the debt according to company policy - which means phone calls every day, letters once a week, telegrams every so often. They are also racking up charges on the account, £10 per phone call (I had 10 calls in one week), £20 per letter.

 

The debt dates back to 1996. It was a £6k loan which I paid for a few years. Balance was £4200 when I ran into problems and despite paying these **** bags over £15,000 since then, they still claim I owe £11k or more.

 

They are really nasty to deal with, which is why I have collected so much information on them, including case notes from court cases and details of other people who have similar experiences with them.

 

I also run a blog about them, see my signature.

 

Standard letters get ignored, I'm hoping they can see I have done my homework and know they haven't a chance of collecting any more on the debt.

 

My last payment to them was one year ago. The fact they haven't taken any legal action or even sent a default notice speaks volumes about how unenforceable the debt is.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Debt buster

[clemma]

Maybe a CCA request is in order then. You need the proof, in writing, that they do not hold one. As for all the charges, these cannot be placed onto your account unless your original agreement states this.

 

Send the letter - but I would consider a CCA first. You can then throw that at them too. Unless you recorded the call, you have no proof whatsoever that a CCA is not in place.

[Debt buster]

I did a CCA request and they sent through a reconstructed agreement which they say fully complies with the law on supplying an agreement under the 1974 act.

 

I have since requested a copy of the original agreement, they have never written to say they haven't got it, but have said so on the phone. I don't think they would ever admit in writing they haven't got it as they don't like to give much away in letters.

[Debt buster]

The reconstructed agreement doesn't include a figure for the total repayment, nor a date, nor any signatures.

 

It's just a copy of the terms and conditions with my name typed on the top.

 

Through research I have found that even if they did have the agreement, it probably isn't enforceable due to errors.

[clemma]

Sorry - my fault.......have read too many threads today!

 

In that case, send them the letter, and see what happens from there. It can't do any harm.

[Dial Square]

It might be worth heading the letter with "Official Complaint - Letter 1".

I believe they have to take it seriously of it's a complaint.

[Debt buster]

I have sent it now, but if they ignore it I'll start an official complaint. My guess is they will brush off the issues I raised and come up with their usual line "it's company policy".

[clemma]

If they do - then maybe you need to go another route with them. have a read of this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

pt has posted some excellent advice - but you have to be prepared to go all the way with it - even if it means taking them to court.

[Debt buster]

Sorry it's been a very long time since I started this thread.

 

I just wanted to update it as I see a number of other Paragon/universal credit threads still going. I sent the letter and Paragon closed my account, nothing more owing.

 

Full details are in my blog below.

http://paragondebts.blogspot.com/

[olliecat8]

They actually wrote to me saying they did not have the original credit agreement from universal credit and sent me a reconstitued one which they say is fully enforceable and wont release me from any liabilty.

[Debt buster]

Olliecat, Paragon will try it on with you, they are by far the nastiest company I had to deal with. Prior to them closing my account they would phone me every single day and made all sorts of threats.

 

The fact remains that without the CCA they will have a very hard tine proving to a court that you owe them anything. I presume you don't have a CCJ from them? Are they putting anything on your credit file. If it's no to both then I suggest you write them a letter calling their bluff. Maybe hint that you are aware they have closed other accounts for not having the paperwork. Tell them you do not acknowledge the debt and since they can't legally prove you owe anything, as far as you are concerned it's a closed case and you won't enter into any further correspondence with them.