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Grumpy's son - NatWest CC


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My son's problems started because he was paying £5 a month to intrum justicia. They increased it to £10 - just before he went to uni (allegedly mature student) he couldn't afford that on student loans etc, but he did for nearly 2 years.

He sometimes paid in advance, then they still hassled him the next month & he paid late. When they handed it back to Natwest he had paid enough to be 2 or 3 months ahead, not behind!

He's complaining now because he wasn't behind really. Also he didn't have a statement in nearly 4 years. IJ say they dont have to.

IJ also threatened to start proceedings against him - he got a letter from solicitors. I think that there is a dpa issue as well as a deception issue. They are only collecting and I think that passing his details to a solicitor just to make threats that can't be followed through isn't covered by what you agree your data can be shared for.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Grumpy

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Well the 2 weeks is up for son's CCA & there is no sign of it.

 

No sign of a reply to my letter about the charging order threat either

 

Son will let sleepping dcas lie until they send the next letter, but I don't know what to do about the charging order - FOS?

 

Grumpy

As soon as they demand money report them to TS for non compliance with your CCA request as well as DEMANDING their own complaints procedure

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Dear Sir

 

My son has shown me a letter from you in which you threaten that, if a debt of his is not repaid, you may start proceedings that may result in a charging order against my house.

My son does not have any financiaal interst in my house. Neither is there any financial link between my son and my wife or myself.

I am sure that you will want to take this opportunity to confirm that you will not be attempting to obtain a charging order against our property in relation to my son’s debt, along with an apology and an offer of compensation in respect of the worry and stress that this has caused.

Please reply within the next 7 days.

I expect the letter to be signed by someone with sufficient authority in your organisation for it to be creditable. I would suggest your company secretary or managing director.

Failure to respond will result in a complaint to the relevant authorities for investigation and question your organization’s suitability to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

Any attempt to obtain a charging order against my wife and my property because of my son’s debts will be vigorously contested and a counter claim made.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Grumpy

 

Well, just as I thought, I got totally ignored. Copy went to the OC but that was a bit late. I suspect that that will go the same way.

 

Does anyone have any DCA tricks I could try on them, or do I just send a copy to TS & FOS?

 

Grumpy

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Does anyone have any DCA tricks I could try on them, or do I just send a copy to TS & FOS?

 

 

 

the best trick is to CCA them, and withold payment when they cannot prove that they are entitled to collect the debt.

 

great one that, works every time!

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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Grumpy

 

The bank can indeed pass your son's details to a third party debt collector - it is in their standard contract. They cannot get a charging order against your house - at least not if they act properly. They will first need a CCJ against him. Once they have that they can apply for a charging order against any property HE owns. However the risk is that they tell the court the house is his, the court does not check properly and surprise! You have a charging order. It shouldn't happen but who knows..?

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Grumpy

 

The bank can indeed pass your son's details to a third party debt collector - it is in their standard contract.

ok, pass to a dca, but then the dca getting their solicitors to say the dca will start proceedings when they don't own the debt is no better than giving details to the cleaner

However the risk is that they tell the court the house is his, the court does not check properly and surprise! You have a charging order. It shouldn't happen but who knows..?

Thats why I want to do something now ......

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I wouldnt worry what the DCA tells the Courts about ownership of the house. The deeds of the house will state clearly who owns it. The Land Registry will show the deeds as being registered in your name with any mortgage/charge that may be registered in your name. A court cannot put a charge on something your son does not own. Any threats by them to do so are totally without foundation. Rest assured that the grubby DCAs will do a Land Registry check before going for a charging order. Do not worry. Should they foolishly try you will have them by the short and curlies. Let them huff and puff. They simply cannot put a charge non something your son does not own

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Well, when I got home I found a letter for my son - AIC are threatening to let the dogs (well lawyers anyway) loose on him. Apparently he hasn't replied to any of their letters. What was the CCA request then?

 

Time for more letters (tempting to add a touch of irony or sarcasm)

 

If they do 'set' the solicitors on Him have your Son send this with His £10

cut & paste below

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Date:

YOUR REF:

OUR REF:

Special Delivery

SAR (Subject Access Request) DPA (Data Protection Act) 1998

Their Name & Address

Your Name & Address

Dear Madam or Sir:

RE: YOUR CLIENT

As per the DPA 1998 (Date Protection Act) we require that you supply us with any and all data in your possession which, in anyway appertains to our client including true copies of any properly executed agreements, statements of account all internal and external correspondence, memo’s, telephone attendance notes, internal and external emails

If your client is not the original creditor a true copy of their letter of assignment or if acting on behalf of another a true copy of their predated authority to bring this action.

I enclose the statutory fee of £10 by way of a postal order and remind you that you have 40 days in which to comply

Also please note that for the avoidance of doubt and to expedite matters if you claim exemptions from the Data Protection Act under part IV section 35 I would respectfully remind of the following:

Data Protection Act part IV section 35 (2) states "personal data is exempt from the non-disclosure provisions" In addition Part II section 7 (legal guidance notes) "There are no exemptions from the right of access where civil legal proceedings are contemplated or ongoing"

We await your responses

Yours faithfully

CC To all parties

  • Haha 1
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I was really hoping for some ideas of what I could put in a letter to them - like the letter they wrote to my son to see how they like it (pay up or we take you to court & add charges, maybe get a charging order on the above proprty) ... but I couldn't think of anything that sounded feasable other than TS & FOS.

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Grumpy forgive me saying this but now's not the time to seek revenge now's the time to stop their little game in it's tracks - doing that will, or chould be revenge enough. Anyway you can frighten them plenty later

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Thanks for that, I had heard that revenge is a dish best served cold.

 

I was really thinking that I might provoke them into actually answering me - what happens if we ignore them - the long road to court! (if they can find the CCA;))

 

Grumpy

 

Grumpy

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Grumpy

 

If they ignore you (remember to send every letter Special Delivery) then when you receive the inevitable "as you have failed to contact us despite our numerous (& mostly mythical) attempts etc etc" you can, should the matter get to court, prove that rather than you being the miscreant it's actually them.

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Imagine the fun you could have if they take it to Court and go for a charging order on YOUR house for your SON'S debt. How much pleasure would you get pointing out to a judge that the debt is nothing to do with you and you have already told the silly DCA that and they persisited with ignoring you.

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Thanks ODC

 

I can see that I am going to have to leave this on the back burner for now, unless I can use it to wind up the OC. Somehow I doubt that it will go to court unless a CCA appears soon

 

Grumpy

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  • 1 month later...

I had an arrangement to pay a DCA.

 

I am now putting a complaint to the FOS together and want to be sure of things.

 

The DCA was just collecting - no assignment involved, but I got this letter from their solicitors. What I want to know is; in whose name are the solicitor threatening to start proceedings against me? The bank or the DCA? and does it matter at this stage? I thought it had to be in the bank's name, but this looks like the DCA to me.

 

Claimant: National Westminster Bank Plc

Reference: xxxxxxxxxx

Amount Due: £xxxx.xx

We are instructed by Intrum Justitia, the Debt Collection Agency acting for National Westminster Bank Plc. On behalf of our client we are writing to you regarding the above sum which is shown as outstanding on your account. Despite reminders from our client this sum remains unpaid.

Should you fail to make payment of the above sum directly to Intrum Justitia within 7 days from the date of this lefter we may be instructed to issue legal proceedings against you without further reference. If legal proceedings are issued you may be responsible for any additional fees, costs and interest.

All payments or enquiries concerning your account should be made directly to our client at the following address quoting the above reference number.

Intrum Justitia Ltd

Payment Processing Centre

P 0 Box 7182

Harlow

CM19 5WF

Telephone Number: 0870 010 4494

We trust that it shall not be necessary for us to be instructed to proceed further with this matter and look forward to receiving confirmation from our client that payment has been made.

All payments and/or enquiries should be directed to our client as detailed. Payments and/or enquiries should not be directed to this office.

My highlighting. I thought they could only do that if they won, not just for taking me to court?

 

This is the DCA's response when I asked if the action was in their name or the bank's name:

 

 

I reiterate that in respect to your concerns regarding the use of a third party and in particular the use of Irwin Mitchell solicitors, this action is undertaken with the prior agreement of our clients. When our clients place accounts with our organisation they advise us to undertake all possible collections activity. This is inclusive of the request to issue a letter before legal action and or legal action if required. This was agreed when the account was placed with us on the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. As our clients wishes may change we will prior to litigating the account confirm the action we will be undertaking on their behalf. As previously advised the ownership of the account remains with our client, the action can be undertaken on their behalf by ourselves. This is in accordance to the terms and conditions you accepted when requesting this facility.

 

Apart from not really answering, they say "will" rather then "did" about the bank being consulted.

 

Can anyone help me? Am I misunderstanding this - or trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill. I really do want to give this DCA & the bank a kicking. This will help.

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I don't think it's worthy of a complaint to be honest; if interim injustica are acting as nasty wests agents, then they may very well have the authority to instruct soliciters, as they say.

 

Frankly, it looks like yet-another-threatogram. To be filed.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Thanks for the quick response

 

if interim injustica are acting as nasty wests agents, then they may very well have the authority to instruct soliciters, as they say.

i agree about that, but this reads to me that IJ will be starting proceedings against me in their name. These are IJs solicitors.

 

What about adding costs before going to trial?

 

Grumpy

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They can't add costs without a court order.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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This all happened as the bank took the account back, handed it to AIC.

 

It all looks iffy to me. If they are threatening to take me to court in their own name then I think that they broke Data protection laws as well as guidelines.

I can't understand why the bank would set a different DCA on me if they knew IJ were about to set the solicitors on me if it was on their behalf.

They are being slow with my SAR request so I will be complaining - I'm trying to get as much ammunition as I can.

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They can't issue proceedings in their own name unless they legally own the debt, so as TT says, it's hogwash... sent to intimidate you. What kind of debt is it anyway ?

 

It'a a credit card, alleged debt owned by the bank

 

CCA etc all sent off, that's all under control. I just want to hit these muppets for all that I can.

 

That's why I want opinions on who is issuing proceedings, or rather in whose name it is in according to the threatogram

 

Grumpy

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I can't understand why the bank would set a different DCA on me if they knew IJ were about to set the solicitors on me if it was on their behalf.

 

Probaby because the account's been sold.... which would mean there are no "clients" at all.

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