Grumpy's son - NatWest CC

[2Grumpy]

Does anyone know if I can do a SAR request to Natwest Credit card & natwest bank in one go & save myself a tenner?

 

I know that they are separate companies, but at a higher level, there must be a single company, but can I send a SAR to that company & get everything from the others, or will they respond with nothing, because the data is held by their subsidiaries?

 

Grumpy

[shane5408]

Hiya,

 

Yes you can, simply quote both account numbers on the SAR request

 

kind regards,

shane

[2Grumpy]

Thanks for that

 

Does anyone know who Natwest bank & credit card mummy is? (don't think they have a daddy)

 

In a roundabout way I'm asking for the parent company details...

 

Grumpy

[monday blues]

RBS I think

[tomterm8]

Does anyone know if I can do a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to NatWest Credit card & NatWest bank in one go & save myself a tenner?

 

I know that they are separate companies, but at a higher level, there must be a single company, but can I send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to that company & get everything from the others, or will they respond with nothing, because the data is held by their subsidiaries?

 

Grumpy

 

They would be seperate limited liability / PLC companies, and so seperate data controllers. So i believe you would probably be best off sending a S.A.R. to both, even if they are owned by the same parent company.

[2Grumpy]

Thought as much

 

I was going to kill 2 birds with 1 stone if I could, buy I only need the CC one.

 

Thanks for your help

[2Grumpy]

Allied International are threatening to take my son to court for a debt - a scary first letter - but they are threatening to go for a charging order against my house. It's obviously a standard letter, but there's no qualification in there like "if you own it".

 

There is no financial association between my son & myself.

 

Is there anything I should do about their threat about the charging order?

 

Shouldn't they be more careful in the way they write their standard letters so that they don't cause alarm & distress to people, especially people that they are not after?

 

I've already had to write to them to tell them that they can't contact my son on my phone (he's away at uni at the moment).

 

Grumpy

[Curlyben]

Oh dear. I'd throw this over to TS for action as this is clear harassment.

[tiglet]

Hi Grumpy

 

This lot are talking a lot of hot air - he doesn't own the house, isn't registered as an owner - therefore, there is no way a judge would grant a charging order. They should be reported to TS and the OFT for breach of debt collection guidelines.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken wjhen it legally cannot is considered an 'unfair practice' by the OFT. Their Guidelines on debt collection are available in the stickies in General Debt.

 

Unless your son has given express consent for them to deal with you, they shouldn't be doing so.

 

It's unlikely the threat is serious - just the standard DCA threat-o-matic output. However, this dosn't excuse it, so report them to TS and encourage your son to make a formal complaint to them.

[NailPost]

Rather than tell Trading Standards who may or may not do a great deal about it write to these muppets and tell them this has nothing to do with you and ask them to confirm that within 7 days.

 

As a parting shot in your letter ask them for a copy of their complaints procedure - they are obliged to have one because they have a consumer credit licence.

 

If they send it to you - make a complaint. Waste their time for a while. If gthe situation isn't resolved to your satisfaction - ie a grovelling apology from a senior officer or director make a complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman.

 

If they don't send the procedure make a complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman! You'll have two grounds for that - the first letter is clear harassment and the second is ignoring a complaint. Just an investigation will cost them £400.

 

Consider going public via the media if you get no joy too.

[2Grumpy]

Thanks for all the advice

 

I realised that they couldn't take my son to court anyway because they don't own the debt, but Mrs Grumpy was worried by it - she wanted us to get a loan to pay off sons debts!

 

The letter was to my son, but he showed it to us when he thiught that they might be after our house (he wanted advice as well).

 

Sounds like lots of complaints for us to start off. I (or we) will complain to Natwest too, since they own the alleged debt and so are resposible for their muppets.

 

I think that I should be complaining as well as my son as he showed me the letter.

 

Grumpy

[ODC]

What a bunch of idiots putting that in writing. You have them but the short ones so a strongly worded complaint is in order.

[2Grumpy]

Thanks for the help. I was thinking it might be a bit of sport to wind them up. It's obviously much more.

 

I will write a letter to AIC & natwest demanding that they confirm that they wont be after a charging order .. not sure what to do if they ignore it. Will ask for a letter from MD or co sec - who else would have the authority?

 

Grumpy

[diskmandave]

Thanks for the help. I was thinking it might be a bit of sport to wind them up.

I'ld certainly be wanting my bit of fun with something like this!! But that's just me being me!!

 

I'ld also be taking the Trading Standards advice seriously too.

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

Regards, Dave.

[2Grumpy]

Here's the letter that I'm planning to send to AIC. Any suggestions or improvements gratefully received

Dear Sir

My son has shown me a letter from you in which you threaten that, if a debt of his is not repaid, you may start proceedings that may result in a charging order against my house.

My son does not have any financiaal interst in my house. Neither is there any financial link between my son and my wife or myself.

When we saw this, my wife and I were so alarmed and distressed by this prospect that my wife wanted us to take out a loan to pay this debt to avoid this possibility.

I am sure that you will want to take this opportunity to confirm that you will not be attempting to obtain a charging order against our property in relation to my son’s debt, along with an apology and an offer of compensation in respect of the worry and stress that this has caused.

Please reply within the next 7 days.

I expect the letter to be signed by someone with sufficient authority in your organisation for it to be creditable. I would suggest your company secretary or managing director.

Failure to respond will result in a complaint to the relevant authorities for investigation and question your organization’s suitability to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

Any attempt to obtain a charging order against my wife and my property because of my son’s debts will be vigorously contested and a counter claim made.

Yours sincerely

Grumpy

I will send a suitably amended copy to the bank as well, complaining about their agent's behaviour, stating that they are responsible for what they do

Grumpy

[ODC]

Here's the letter that I'm planning to send to AIC. Any suggestions or improvements gratefully received

 

Dear Sir

 

My son has shown me a letter from you in which you threaten that, if a debt of his is not repaid, you may start proceedings that may result in a charging order against my house.

My son does not have any financiaal interst in my house. Neither is there any financial link between my son and my wife or myself.

When we saw this, my wife and I were so alarmed and distressed by this prospect that my wife wanted us to take out a loan to pay this debt to avoid this possibility.

I am sure that you will want to take this opportunity to confirm that you will not be attempting to obtain a charging order against our property in relation to my son’s debt, along with an apology and an offer of compensation in respect of the worry and stress that this has caused.

Please reply within the next 7 days.

I expect the letter to be signed by someone with sufficient authority in your organisation for it to be creditable. I would suggest your company secretary or managing director.

Failure to respond will result in a complaint to the relevant authorities for investigation and question your organization’s suitability to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

Any attempt to obtain a charging order against my wife and my property because of my son’s debts will be vigorously contested and a counter claim made.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Grumpy

 

 

I will send a suitably amended copy to the bank as well, complaining about their agent's behaviour, stating that they are responsible for what they do

 

Grumpy

I would leave out the bit in red and change any reference to debt to ALLEGED DEBT:)

[tooth_fairy]

Absolutely agree with ODC, the way these people are, if you put that sentance in, they will start hassling you to take a loan out. DCA's have little morals and even less common sense, hopefully your letter will see them off.

[2Grumpy]

Hassling me will add to a complaint to the FOS & give me some sport going after these *******s. I've alreay sent a don't phone letter that they have signed for (and they haven't phoned since).

 

I will add "alleged", my son has already asked for his CCA, cheque (mine) already cashed. Mind you, I don't think that I can acknowledge his debts for him - I know nothing about his financial affairs;)

 

Thanks for your comments

 

Grumpy

[diskmandave]

To add to ODC's wise words i'ld also add a small paragraph stating that you are also to be furnished with a copy of their formal complaints procedure.

 

This will enable FOS action further down the line should they not see sense.

 

1 more point.. When addressing the letter, make it,

"FTAO Risk/Compliance Manager." And be sure to send it 1st class signed for.

 

Good luck, Dave.

 

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[2Grumpy]

Well, when I got home I found a letter for my son - AIC are threatening to let the dogs (well lawyers anyway) loose on him. Apparently he hasn't replied to any of their letters. What was the CCA request then?

 

Time for more letters (tempting to add a touch of irony or sarcasm)

[Curlyben]

Throw this at them.

 

Formal Complaint

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. I enclose a copy for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harrassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully

[2Grumpy]

Thanks for that Ben. I will save it for their next reply after my son has sent them a cheeky reply - one that they might possibly misunderstand.

[2Grumpy]

I sent off my letters to the DCA & a slightly modified version to the bank. I did make the suggested changes.

 

I couldn't send CurlyBen's letter because the 2 weeks isn't up yet, so my son sent back a complaint about the exaggerations in the letter (the many letters he had ignored and had not made any payments). Shame about the £1 CCA fee being taken off the balance! how did that happen without replying to them?

 

Grumpy

[2Grumpy]

Well the 2 weeks is up for son's CCA & there is no sign of it.

 

No sign of a reply to my letter about the charging order threat either

 

Son will let sleepping dcas lie until they send the next letter, but I don't know what to do about the charging order - FOS?

 

Grumpy