Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice is change. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been reading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. On mediation form you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee that you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.  
    • Nice to hear a positive story about a company on this form for a change. Thank you
    • too true HB, but those two I referred for starters - appear to be self admitted - One to excuse other lockdown law breaking, by claiming his estate away from his consistency and London abode was his main home the other if he claims to have 'not told the truth' in his own words via that quote - to have mislead his investors rather than broken lobbying rules   - seem to be slam dunks - pick which was your law breaking - it seems to be both and much more besides in Jenricks case Starmer was director of public prosecutions yet the tories are using seemingly baseless allegations for propaganda and starmer is missing pressing apparent blatant criminality in politics
    • I am sure the resident experts will give you a comprehensive guide to your rights.  The responsibility lies with the retailer. I have dealt with Cotswold before for similar. And found them refreshingly helpful.   Even when I lost the receipt for one item I had bought in Inverness. The manager in Newcastle called the store. Found the transaction and gave me a full refund. 
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Help required with County Court Action by Cabot (Monument)


arbo
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5316 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I am defending a case against my wife brought against her by Cabot in respect of a Monument Credit Card.

 

Part of my submitted defence was that they had not produced a copy of the agreement. In the reply to the defence they have produced a copy of a Reply Card signed by my wife which they say is the agreement. I will argue that the card is an application form rather an agreement and in any event does not contain the prescribed terms. The application refers to enclosed terms and conditions and agreeing to be bound by them. They have now also produced a seperate document which they submit are the terms and conditions referred to and that contain the prescribed terms, although this second document contains no reference whatsoever to my wifes account.

 

In their reply they have stated "It is averred that as the Agreement and Terms and Conditions are "documents embodying regulated agreements" and as such contain all of the prescribed terms required under s60 and s61 of the CCA. The Claimant pleads that the Agreement is therefore enforceable."

 

I am not sure what they mean by "documents embodying regulated agreements" and need some assistance with a rejoinder in this matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Still do not know how to upload a copy.

 

However I am happy that the reply card alone does not constitute a valid agreement as amongst other things it does not contain the prescribed terms. My concern is that Morgan Solicitors (who act for Cabot) appear to be aware of this and are attempting to link the reply card (the agreement) with a seperate document (the terms and conditions) that they purport to be the T&C's referred to in the reply card (the agreement) and does contain the prescribed terms, by calling them "documents embodying regulated agreements" and that together they form a valid agreement. The second document (the terms and conditions) makes no reference whatsoever to my wife or her account and could therefore relate to any "agreement" that does not otherwise contain the prescribed terms. I can find no reference to this tact anywhere else and if they succeed would have very onerous consequences to many other debtors defences.

 

Can anyone offer any advice based upon the information provided.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Kurvaface, :) but I would still appreciate some advice from someone who may be an "expert" :rolleyes: before I become too stressed out :confused:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can someone help with this? If Cabot win this argument it will destroy the argument regarding the containment of the prescribed terms within an agreement with catestrophic consequences.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can someone help with this? If Cabot win this argument it will destroy the argument regarding the containment of the prescribed terms within an agreement with catestrophic consequences.

 

 

HI

 

Have you SAR them? Cabot are good at producing nothing worth acting on.

 

You are in the same boat as I. They have no valid agreement, just a application form from 2000, check the date on the form, if its more than 6 years they are stuffed...

 

SAR them..

 

Trooper68

Trooper68:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

It really would be helpful if you could post the claim, the defence, the CCA, the DN, the NoA and the Assignment

 

If you can scan or use a digital camera to take photos and load them into your PC and then if you click on Go Advanced in the quick reply box and then look down and click on manage attachments you can then upload the documents from your PC direct to the CAG server

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are likely to be a whole range of issues which are likely to include:-

1. A CCA which doesn't include the prescribed terms - what is the date of the agreement - is it a S127 (3) agreement

2. The Notice of Assignment - either not served at all or invalid

3. The DN is likely to either not be served at all or invalid

4. Account charges - are there default charges

5. The Actual Assignment - you need to see that

6. You need to get the terms and conditions at the date that the agreement started AND the most recent

7. Do you know how they've calculated the amount claimed

 

 

There is a fair chance that your defence may need amending.

 

If you post the docs we'll see if we can make any suggestions

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

Link to post
Share on other sites

IGNM

 

Thanks for your response. I do not have a scanner, but I can get them scanned in tomorrow at work, emailed to myself and hopefully uploaded tomorrow evening. The documents are as I said quite voluminous. I assume from other threads that I should score out all personal data.

 

In answer to your questions

 

1) The purported agreement is dated 06/11/01. The seperate document purported to be the T&C's is undated. Not sure what you mean by a 127(3) agreement, but you can judge for yourself if I can get it all uploaded.

2) There is no NoA. In their reply to the defence thay have provided a copy of a "representation" of the one that would have been sent.

3) There is no DN. Morgan Solicitors have pleaded that one was not necessary as they are only pursuing arrears. They lie - they have claimed the full balance.

4) There are as you would imagine account charges. I will not include the copy statements provided by Cabot, but they have provided them for most of the full period of the account and the amount can be calculated.

5) They have provided a copy of the "actual" assignement, although it appears to be a generic document that does not specify my wife's account.

6) See 1) above. They have also provided a copy of amended T&C's but it is barely legible.

7) They have shown a calculation of the amount - the full amount, plus interest.

 

Hopefully I can get it all uploaded tomorrow.

 

Many thanks again for your response.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to say that it sounds as if there are numerous issues - not least of which is enforceability - S127 (3) CCA 1974 basically means that if the signed agreement does not contain the prescribed terms (as to interest rate, repayment & credit limit) then it will be irredeemably unenforceable

 

There are then issues as to a failure to serve a valid NoA...etc etc...

 

Once you've posted the stuff I'll make some suggestions as to the defence

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

Link to post
Share on other sites

IGNM & K

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

The document they allege is the agreement does not contain the prescribed terms. They are however contained in a seperate document, but you will hopefully see for yourself tomoz.

 

Will be posting again as soon as.

 

Cheers

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that it isn't the same Claimant but it does have some similar issues - have a read at

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/197867-arrow-mbna-ignm-pt.html#post2147014

 

and have a read at my skeleton it sort of outlines the law

CAG Skeleton.doc

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

Link to post
Share on other sites

IGNM & K

 

I have uploaded the following documents:

 

1 Claim & Defence docs

2 Appendix doc to Defence

3 Post Defence docs [1 of 2]

4 Post Defence docs [2 of 2]

5 Reply to the Defence

 

More to follow

1 Claim Form & Defence.pdf

2 Appendix to Defence.pdf

3 Post Defence Correspondence 1 of 2.pdf

4 Post Defence Correspondence 2 of 2.pdf

5 Reply to Defence.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

Arbo

 

Well done on a very thorough defence (In my inexperienced opinion)

 

I fail to see how they are going to be able to get around the original credit agreement issue, let alone all the other stuff. I'm sure this will go in your favour but you need the more experienced opinion of other CAGgers.

 

One consolation is you have managed to keep some of these monkeys busy:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks K

 

I am happy with most of it but still a bit concerned about their reply and their attempt to assert that the seperate reply card & T&C's are "documents embodying regulated agreements" and therefore valid.

 

On another note I am not sure if this reply has been filed with the court. If it has it must have been after ther period by which the court should have stayed the action. I have contacted the court but they will not advise on the position, insisting they will write to my wife - that response is still waited.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Under civil proceedure rules they will have to provide you with all the documents they intend to use in the hearing. If you think they have submitted different docs to you and the court I am sure the court will provide you with a copy of any docs you don't have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I've read around cag, the courts seem to be fairly relaxed about deadlines and submission dates, however, all the situations I've read that are similar to yours, the Judge seems to come down like a ton of bricks on the claimant by the time of the hearing over details that are not in order. I genuinely think you'll be ok.

 

Have you thought about claiming your costs because you must have put considerable time and resources into preparing your defence?

Edited by kurvaface
friday grammar
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...