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    • What the administrators are saying is that unsecured creditors, as you are for the £807, will receive nothing. If they used the £807 to reduce a different debt you owe to Unclebuck that would be the the same thing as paying you £807. Legally and financially reducing a different debt by £807 is exactly the same thing as paying you £807 in cash. The administrators are not allowed by law to do that. Frustrating for you I know, but the Administrators are correct.
    • The repossession people didn’t even knock on my door, I was home with my 2 children we would of heard, They took my car with bank card, shop keys and valuables in which I needed, if they had of knocked I would of sorted the money while they were there.    I will check bill of sale when I am back home will it be original one or should I have got another one?    as the paper work I have certainly doesn’t match. I did agree to lower amount but expected new paper work to sign which never come.       
    • yes sorry i was confused that you had managed to get anything out of the administrators. we've not seen that and was surprised by it read that way.   your credit file is clear Conexus Recovery and Field Services Ltd - can be totally ignored. DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type and they are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..
    • An online news and information service for the UK’s commercial and consumer credit industry. View the full article
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

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I am sure that it is ultimately the responsibility of the Landlord to ensure proper deposit protection and advice to tenant of such.

 

I believe that at the end of the day the Landlord will pick up the tab! If the Agent can be proved to be negligent tho I doubt Agent could recover the penalty from Landlord.

 

This is my understanding and of course may not be correct.

Kentish Lass

Information given is based on my knowledge and experience and is not to be considered as legal advice

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It depends on your tenancy agreement, on mine the LA states that he is acting as, and on behalf of, the LL.

 

If in doubt name them as joint defendants.

If you find my post helpful please click on the scales at the top. Thank you

FAQ SECTION HERE

 

Halifax Bank Claim filed and settled

Halifax Credit Card settled

Argos Store Card settled

 

CCA requests sent to

Halifax Credit Card

LLoyds TSB Credit Card

Capital One

Moorcroft (Argos)

NDR

18/06/09

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I'm taking my ex LL and LA to court over this - I had an absentee LL for whom I was never given contact details. LA signed AST on her behalf and gave his address for service of notices/proceedings.

 

LA returned my full deposit at the allocations hearing but judge ordered a full hearing to be held as there was still a case to answer for the non-compliance. This will be in about 3 weeks and I am preparing for it now.

 

Natalie - well done for your successful case! I'm hoping the return of the deposit does not mean I lose. But the LL is unlikely to turn up in court anyway (lives in Japan and has failed to acknowledge claim) and the LA does not appear to have a grasp of the legislation at all.

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Is there any dispute that the deposit wasnt protected?

 

If not I cant really see a defence. Has the LA submitted a defence yet?

 

My only advice would be to make sure you have everything you need to hand, so that you arent rustling through notes looking for things.

 

I was lucky I suppose because my LA blatantly lied.. he said that he had attempted to register the deposit a year prior to him actually doing it, and I had written confirmation from the DPS of dates and times that he had accessed the account.

 

They also explained the system to me, that there is no possible way a LA can accidentally not finalise a deposit account, because it would flag up every time they accessed their account.

If you find my post helpful please click on the scales at the top. Thank you

FAQ SECTION HERE

 

Halifax Bank Claim filed and settled

Halifax Credit Card settled

Argos Store Card settled

 

CCA requests sent to

Halifax Credit Card

LLoyds TSB Credit Card

Capital One

Moorcroft (Argos)

NDR

18/06/09

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I am actually a Landlord, and am extremely fortunate to have an excellent Agent who knows exactly what he is doing and all the legalities involved. However, I have made sure that I am also aware of what is required and what the law is relating to letting my properties as I don't think it wise to assume that the agent will deal with all my responsibilities, even if he is! Best to keep up with things.:D

Kentish Lass

Information given is based on my knowledge and experience and is not to be considered as legal advice

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I think thats wise KL, my LA was ripping off the LL by billing her for 3 monthly checks that werent being done. When I discovered this (the Receptionist happened to mention a report had been submitted when i was certain no one had been round to the house because I was stuck at home with 4 year old twins with chicken pox) I was given my notice to leave.

If you find my post helpful please click on the scales at the top. Thank you

FAQ SECTION HERE

 

Halifax Bank Claim filed and settled

Halifax Credit Card settled

Argos Store Card settled

 

CCA requests sent to

Halifax Credit Card

LLoyds TSB Credit Card

Capital One

Moorcroft (Argos)

NDR

18/06/09

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I am sorry that happened to you. It seems stupid to me. If I was the LL, it would have been LA being given the sack, not the tenant!!

 

The problem is that Letting Agents are not regulated. Anyone can set themselves up as a Property Letting Agent with absolutely no experience or knowledge of the business.

 

My Agent would really like to see Letting Agents regulated in the same way that Estate Agents are regulated. And although some Estate Agents handle lettings, it is only the Sales side of their business which is regulated - not the Lettings side. He is very experienced and trains Letting Agents and is sometimes horrified (as I am when I read some of the stuff on these forums) how little they actually know about their job!

Kentish Lass

Information given is based on my knowledge and experience and is not to be considered as legal advice

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Its quite a convoluted case but basically LA's defence is based on three points - firstly that the original deposit was taken pre-April 2007, secondly that he was only a letting agent and was not paid to manage the property, and thirdly that the agency he used to work for were responsible for protecting it. LL hasn't acknowledged the claim or submitted a defence.

 

However a renewal AST was signed in March 2008 with a change of LA, and the LA address was the one given for service of notices/proceedings - the LL address was never given to me despite requests.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/181073-complicated-tds-case-have.html Its this case if interested.

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My judge thought the law was very clear, that if landlords failed to adhere to the law, by protecting the deposit on time and in the correct manner, then as well as being made to put it right (by either protecting the deposit or by repaying it) then must pay a penalty of 3 times the value of the deposit..

 

Hi Natalie, When you started the court order had the LL tried to withold deposit from you at all? I'm asking as I have just started a county court order against the landlord 1 week ago (approx 2 days before my tenancy ended) for not protecting my deposit nor providing me with any information regarding my deposit during the course of tenancy. Anyway I just received a cheque for my FULL deposit back from the LA (who hasn't mentioned anything about the order against the LL and perhaps hasn't even spoken to him). Am pleased but at the same time am wondering how this return of my deposit should affect the court order against the LL which was specifically for TDS non-compliance?

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Clearly the threat of 3 times the deposit just isn't enough to get landlords to comply. Any more would be considered excessive by all judges and any less we would be in an even worse state. Landlords want to be landlords and arbitrators and it seems they can.

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My LA gave me back the deposit as soon as he knew I was starting legal proceedings, I continued with the case and still got 3 times the value as compensation regardless of the fact he had returned the deposit.

 

Its the failure to protect it that is the issue. If they dont then they have broken the law and so have to take the consequences.

If you find my post helpful please click on the scales at the top. Thank you

FAQ SECTION HERE

 

Halifax Bank Claim filed and settled

Halifax Credit Card settled

Argos Store Card settled

 

CCA requests sent to

Halifax Credit Card

LLoyds TSB Credit Card

Capital One

Moorcroft (Argos)

NDR

18/06/09

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the LA address was the one given for service of notices/proceedings - the LL address was never given to me despite requests.

 

This is perfectly legal. Provided you are given an address in the UK for service to the LL of notices/proceedings, it does not have to be LL's actual address. Wouldn't help you much if it was in Japan, or USA!

Kentish Lass

Information given is based on my knowledge and experience and is not to be considered as legal advice

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  • 9 months later...

I am in a similar situation that natalie found herself in. My tenancy came to an end as the landlord was moving back to the UK and wanted to move back into their property. They gave notice so I have no issue with this.

However, when the LA started to send me emails indicating LL deductions I queried them and said I was not happy. Ignoring my queries the LA paid back my deposit less the deductions.

I was getting no where with emails to the LA about the deductions, one listed as w/rubber for £175, until I mentioned that they left me no choice but to approach the tenancy deposit scheme TDS listed in the contract. Rather belatedly I also looked at how these schemes are meant to work. The interesting part being about no money being returned until I had agreed. This coupled with the fact the LA replied almost immediately made me suspicious.

I had none of the deposit IDs I was meant to have and having contacted the scheme they have no record of my deposit ever having being placed with them. I contacted the other TDSs and they have now also replied indicating that for my details they have no records.

The 3*fine is meant to act as a deterrent to LAs/LLs so that they place the deposit correctly into a TDS. I strongly suspect that some bad LAs/LLs are avoiding using schemes hoping they can get through the contract without the tenant realizing and only acting when court action is taken. I have read cases on other blogs where the judge finds in favour of the LAs if the deposit is secured before the court date. However, I feel that this misses the point. The fine is to encourage compliance so should be made in all cases where compliance has not been met.

Anyhow, onto my query, as indicated by planner http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/docs/infoabout/housing/section-214-application.doc indicates that form N208 should be used to make a claim but the original thread owner Jeny269 and natalie said they used the online service moneyclaim.

Natalie or Jeny269 did you have any problems with your case as it was submitted via money claim and what is the general consensus about which approach should be used?

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Hi There, sorry to pip in. . . I also successfully sued my ex LL for 3 x deposit in November 2009. I used the N208 (I think that's what it is?!) not the N1 and certainly not the online one. I didn't use the online form BASED SOLELY ON THE FACT that if you read all the sticky posts at the beginning of all these, there is a tempate to use with all the legal jargon that you should put into your form. There wasn't enough space on the online form to fit the legal jargon in.

 

I'd say it is important to stick to the advice of these people on this forum - esp Planner - I did everything that was suggested on the sticky notes, and successfully sued - starting with the N208.

 

Once I'd started legal proceedings, my LL posted a cheque for the full deposit. I simply didn't cash it, and took to court with me to prove I hadn't cashed it....

 

Anyway, sorry to pip in but just thought that may help you with the forms! x

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channist the rule changed midway through last year - deposit claims may only be brought on N208 - not N1 - and are never allocated to the small claims track.

 

Watch for precedents being set in the appeal court next week... Universal Estates v Tiensia and Honeysuckle Properties v Fletcher

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry to jump onto this thread but was wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation to me.

Landlord has not put deposit in a scheme but has said that he is putting it in a bank account and any interest accrued will be kept by him. This was paid to him five months before moving in so he is gaining quite a bit of interest.

No inventory whatsoever and I know he has claimed off the previous tenants for damage that was already there.

Im worried my housemates and I will have deductions from our deposit.

The only problem is I missed one months rent a while ago (now paid in full) and I was wondering whether he could use that against me. I am leaving the house in a week.

Any links or advice would be appreciated.

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Sorry to jump onto this thread but was wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation to me.

Landlord has not put deposit in a scheme but has said that he is putting it in a bank account and any interest accrued will be kept by him. This was paid to him five months before moving in so he is gaining quite a bit of interest.

No inventory whatsoever and I know he has claimed off the previous tenants for damage that was already there.

Im worried my housemates and I will have deductions from our deposit.

The only problem is I missed one months rent a while ago (now paid in full) and I was wondering whether he could use that against me. I am leaving the house in a week.

Any links or advice would be appreciated.

Your rent issue will not affect your deposit refund.

 

This letter might help... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/232265-trouble-landlord-deposit.html#post2576374

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I'm in a similar situation and need a point clarifying if anyone knows the answer.

 

My deposit was never protected, and no prescribed information was sent to me.

 

LL made deductions at end of tenancy and returned only part of the deposit.

I disagreed with deductions. LL is still holding part of my deposit.

 

I understand if the deposit has been returned in full, then the court may or may not award a 3x fine.

 

If I sued LL for non-compliance, could the court decide the LL deductions were fair, therefore the deposit has infact been returned already?

 

thanks for your help!

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was an inventory recorded and signed by both you and the LL?

If not then the deductions are unfounded and in my opinion you have a strong argument against the LL's decisions.

 

How unfair were the deductions which the LL made?

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There was an inventory check at the start and end of tenancy. The check out highlighted very minor points - quick wipe clean over this and that, but nothing major.

The amount of outstanding deposit is smaller now (after negotiations), and I'm concerned that a judge may decide that the deposit had effectively been returned, therefore not able to award the return of the deposit and the 3x fine.

 

The point is that I never agreed on the final deductions amount, the LL just made deductions based on what he thought was right.

 

I guess the fundamental question is: If a case was brought for protection non-compliance and the deposit hadn't been returned in full, could a judge look at the deductions and decide they were actually fair and the deposit had effecively been returned? therefore not able to award the 3x fine.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear All

 

I wonder if I can resurrect this thread with my own experience.

 

I was in a 6-month tenancy from August to February this year from which I have now moved. At the start of the tenancy I signed a deposit protection certificate, but at no time during the sx months was I told where the deposit was held, because the agent failed to provide me with a copy as required by law.

 

When the tenancy was up I had no idea where the deposit was held. I am now considering filing a claim through Small Claims to see if I can get 3x the deposit back. What do you think are my chances of success?

 

Thanks

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  • 2 months later...
Hi,

Desperate help needed over how to ensure the 3 times penalty.

 

First I shall highlight Some background as to my situation:

 

- Tenancy started July 2008, moved in September 2008. Tenancy expires beginning of July.

- Joint tenancy with 3 other housemates excluding myself.

- When we moved in the house was filthy: rubbish, slugs, mildue, holes in floor! I actually had my first asthma attack in over 5 years sleeping there. It was unfit for human habitation.

- No information about whether our deposit was protected or who with, not after 14 days, not even after 6 months.

- After couple days of moving in and hours cleaning the place we complained to the landlord and demanded him to do a clean of the house but he pretty much refused based on the fact we had cleaned the place 60% already by ourselves, he was very unaccommodating and stingy on anything that would cost money.

- I asked about deposit in May 2009 and agent confirmed it was protected over the phone but refused to give me more details.

- I wrote letter to landlord asking for the deposit details, no reply.

- I wrote to all 3 deposit schemes and they confirmed in writing that they do not have our house/deposit listed under their scheme therefore indicating the deposit is not protected and the landlord/agents lied to me.

 

Given the above information, My questions are:

 

1. My housemates are not so bothered about taking action against the landlord, but given that he has been the worst landlord I have ever had and appears to have broken several laws including house unfit for human habitation, not informing us within 14 days about deposit and (if correct) not protecting our deposit at all, I want to take action against him for 3 times the deposit we paid. So, what is the tenancy deposit situation regarding joint tenancies - Do I take action against the landlord on behalf of all the tenants? Do i file the petition with all 4 names? or just my name?

 

2. As the tenancy is about to end, there is a chance the landlord will repay the deposit to me before any court 'hearing' date. Has a precedent been set (as only one person in this forum seems to say - but I'd like reassurance from others if there is any) that even if the landlord has paid back the deposit before any hearing, if I filed a county court application against him with a date that precedes the date he returned the deposit, that he will still have to pay the 3x penalty?

 

3. If not, what is the best way to achieve the 3x compensation?

 

4. Is there a best time to achieve the above (point 3)? ie making sure I take action before the tenancy runs out in July, taking action the day the tenancy runs out or after? At the moment I am inclined to take action the day I am supposed to moved out, because last time I wrote to the landlord to just ask him to clean the house, he came over 8pm the night he got it unannounced and screamed at me.

 

5. Which form is the best? I found several forms pointing to one option which cost over £100 and another which was cheaper?

 

 

Any help is appreciated!

Whilst this is a bit trite - surely given that three times the deposit is likely to be large a solicitor might be the best answer - there is a Firm called Pain smith who specialise in Landlord and Tenant (I hasten to add I have no connection) who might help.

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