Abbey Bank Account defaulted Nov 08

[evancosmo]

Hi everyone.

 

I'm a complete newcomer here & a bit late off the blocks by the looks of things. First things first; I haven't put in a claim for my bank charges yet but done the template subject access request letter from the template in the library (author: thank you so much & yes I kept the copyright at the bottom of the page). So that & a £10 cheque is winging its way off to Abbey tomorrow.

 

Abbey defaulted me last November for £394. This is entirely comprised of bank charges. After being with them for ten years & nearly defaulting in 2005 they candidly told me they wouldn't upgrade my card from an electron or reinstate my overdraft for at least 6 years. Taking umbrage I moved to Natwest who were quite obliging & almost human too.

 

I made the mistake of not cancelling the SOs & DDs so they started bouncing. Annoyed with Abbey I ignored the letters & got defaulted (stupid I know)

 

The thread ruminating about bank charges defaults post July 07 irrespective of whether claims for charges have been submitted got me thinking whether or not I can get this default removed (naturally its showing up on my file at the 3 CRA's)?

 

Any suggestions guys? Is it worth putting a Notice of Correction on my files? I know it messes with automatic decisions but my credit scores are so low I'm not even bothering to apply much anyway. Is there anything else I should be doing?

 

Muchas gracias

 

EC

[evancosmo]

OK. Well subject access request sent off to Abbey this morning.

 

Saga is trundling along as lo & behold I arrived home this afternoon to a letter from Apex Credit Management Ltd. Apex informed me that following their investigation they've established I live at my address (Abbey put a 'gone away' flag on one of my credit files). They also informed me that Abbey (their client) has requested them to start proceedings to recover the debt. They've threatened to pass the account to "an external doorstep agency".

 

Wondering what my next step should be while I wait for Abbey to process the SAR. This default is bank charges & i'm b*ggered if i'm prepared to let them threaten me when they are in the wrong. Will trawl through the threads to find some inspiration. Will keep you posted. :?

[clarkenuttal]

There are 2 ways forward. You can challenge them on basis if they issued you with a DEFAULT notice or on basis of illegal /unfair bank charges. Have they issued you DEFAULT NOTICE?

 

have a look at my thread... I have very similar prb to yours may be it will help you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/192562-how-challenge-default-notice.html

[evancosmo]

Hi Clark

 

Thanks for your input.

In all honesty they probably have issued me with a default notice (bad year last year & head was firmly in sand; tons of correspondence unopened). Just quickly checked through your thread & it seems you've been treated far more shabbily than I have. I suppose I'm irked primarily about the fact they defaulted me while the whole bank charges thing is up in the air. Will go back through the thread carefully & see what the next step could be. Thanks again.

[evancosmo]

I've been thinking about how to respond to Abbey's DCA. As mentioned above they've sent a doorstep call threat so need dealing with.

 

I'm keen to put the frighteners on them as well as respond to the doorstep call issue & as such have cobbled together the doorstep call threat response & the template for putting the CRAs on notice for bank charges defaults. Would really appreciate input on whether this looks ok!

 

The first part of the letter is pretty standard i.e. I don't want an appointment with you, only communicate in writing & I'm revoking licence to visit under Common law. The second part (below) is the one I've amended:

 

In Dispute

You are holding personal data about me which is inaccurate & which is in dispute. The data supplied to you by Abbey plc refer to purported debts which are in fact comprised of unfair bank charges.

As you are aware, the entire issue of bank charges has been in dispute generally between the banks and their customers for well over 2 years. In July 2007 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that in response to a request by 8 UK banks they would be bringing a test case on the issue of whether bank delinquency charges were subject to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR). It is clear that at least by that date, if not before that the UK banks admitted that there was a serious question mark over the status of their charges. In May 2008 the High Court ruled that the bank’s charges were indeed subject to the UTCCR. In February 2009 the Court of Appeal unanimously concurred with the High Court.

I am sure that you are well aware that the OFT has publicly expressed its view that the charges are subject to the UTCCR and also that they are unfairly high.

 

Although the banks have appealed to the House of Lords & the decision is due in the autumn, there is frankly little chance that they will succeed & once it is fully confirmed that UTCCR is the governing law and that its terms have been breached by the banks high level of charges, all charges which have been levied to date plus any associated interest will be unlawfully unfair. Any related data held by you will automatically be in breach of the Data Protection Act and defamatory.

 

I am putting you on notice that I intend to complain to the Information Commissioner’s office that you are holding inaccurate data about me. The negative data is damaging to me and the Data Protection Act allows me to seek compensation from both you and Abbey plc, which communicated the data to you, through the County Courts and this is also an option which I am considering.

 

The inaccurate data about me is defamatory and that it is a new act of defamation each time you process this data including passing it to any third party. Even if an inaccurate data entry carries a dispute marker, it does not prevent the inaccurate data from having a damaging effect and it does not protect you from liability. I expect also that you are aware that being an “innocent disseminator” is no defence either to claims under the Data Protection Act or in defamation.

 

I would be very grateful if you will let me have your full response by return.

 

 

 

Does anyone have any views on this before I send it? Would be particularly interested to hear whether there are any templates for tackling a DCA on a bank charges default issue. Also should I do the two tasks in the one letter (i.e. revoke licence to visit & advise re: above)

 

Thanks in advance!

[clarkenuttal]

IF you were issued with DEFAULT NOTICE then you have to drag Abbey to Court. Go to Library Section on this website to have a download and have a look at templates which will help you great deal preparing your case.

 

FILE THE CASE AS SOON AS YOU CAN AS THIS CASE IS UNDER REVIEW IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS

 

If you drag them to court And IF your DEFAULT IS ONLY MADE UP OF UNFAIR CHARGES the court will Dismiss the case and rule it in your favour forcing Abbey to remove the Default and paying you back all the charges.

 

The process would cost you £150 which will be paid back to you once case is ruled in your favour (which will be as by the judgement of Courts of Appeal all bank charges are unfair).

 

For now your steps should be

 

1) Putting Credit Reference Agency on Alert

2) Send Abbey Intention to sue (Template Letter in the Library Section)

3) IF Abbey replies back in negative file the case in county court (Templates and a lot of documents in Library Section)

 

All the Best

Edited June 30, 2009 by clarkenuttal

[evancosmo]

Thanks Clark. That seems to be an interesting approach worth considering.

 

In response to the points you raised in the above thread:

 

1. The default comprises solely & entirely of bank charges from June 08 to Nov 08.

 

2. I did receive a default letter (not sure I still have it - I was very sulky towards Abbey last year but I've done a subject access request on Abbey this week so I'm assuming a copy will be in the paperwork they return to me).

 

3. Put all 3 CRAs on notice yesterday using the template letter in the library.

 

 

I'll sub your thread & read with interest. In the meantime does anyone else have first hand experience of pursuing from this angle?

 

thanks in advance

Edited July 1, 2009 by evancosmo
forgot point 3!

[clarkenuttal]

My advice would be to send Abbey your intention to sue them for unfair charges ASAP. According to the template letter it gives ABBEY 14 days Notice to resolve issue outside court which would allow you enough time to receive Subject Access and prepare your case using material in Library Section.

 

If issue doesnt get resolved in 14 days file your case in County Court before the House of Lords give their ruling which might go either way.

 

For someone with first hand experience read replies from thefastestfox in my thread.

 

All the best

[evancosmo]

I did something last night that was highly unusual for me. I got my head out of the sand once & for all & finally opened all the correspondence from the banks & the DCAs to establish timelines on my respective issues.

 

The Abbey saga is interesting. They issued a default notice dated 18.12.08 & then a further letter dated 19.12.08 notifying me of their intention to default me. Don't know if this is of any significance but seems strange to me!

[clarkenuttal]

As far as they've issued you a DEFAULT Notice your only chance seems to go to court

 

Time is ticking

[evancosmo]

In terms of going to court; will I need to wait for the data from my subject access request before I proceed?

[evancosmo]

OK. So waiting on my subject access request info from Abbey; read the guidance in the libraries so now know the process - preliminary approach, letter before action etc.

 

One question that has been nagging at me though is when if at all should I serve Abbey with a s.10 Data Protection letter? The templates in the library include mentions of defaults as they progress through the prelim to LBA prior to the N1. At no point does the guidance suggest a s.10 as well.

 

Wondered what people's thoughts were on this? Planning for worst while hoping for the best - if the Lords overturn everything that has gone so far & the status quo is maintained I'd have no recourse through s.10 whereas at the moment, maybe I do.

 

Input anyone?

 

thanks, EC

Edited July 2, 2009 by evancosmo

[evancosmo]

Received a 2 & a bit page letter from an Experian Consumer Compliance Executive this morning in response to my letter putting them on notice regarding the bank charges default.

 

Imagining this is a bog standard response they're sending out to everyone right now although its not a mass produced jobby & it has a wet ink signature signed by a real person (quite a novelty in my experience so far) who gave me phone number, email address & invited me to contact her if I wanted to!

 

Basically they:

 

* noted my opinions on the OFT test case & intention to complain to ICO

* stated the info they hold shows conduct of account only & not whether charges applied were unfair

* stated that while charges may be reclaimed doesn't mean information is necessarily incorrect

* incurring a charge in the first place is my fault (! cheek)

* have confirmed they've written to Abbey

* will put an "accuracy disputed" flag on the account within 7 days

* referred me to s.13 DPA1998 in regard to assertion for compo & this is where it started to get interesting. They quoted 13(1) - damage can lead to compensation; 13(2) distress can lead to compensation & 13(2)a compensation for distress can only happen where there are damages. Their position is that credit decisions are made based on many factors & that blaming any specific entry for being declined credit would be difficult to prove.

* they weren't keen on my comments about being defamed either! The letter gave me a definition of defamation (so nice of them)

* stated they hold a factual record of how the account was conducted & that I don't seem to be disputing that the account was not operated to the agreed T&Cs

* told me that they have strict T&Cs with their clients

* told me to get legal advice before making any claim & contact ICO if I'm not happy

 

Is this what other people are getting back from the CRAs?

 

EC

[evancosmo]

I amaze myself sometimes at how thick I am!

 

Lightbulb moment!

 

Now realise that I need to do a letter before action to Abbey for the default & NOT for the bank charges. Doh! And that ideally i've got to get Abbey in court before the Lords decision.

 

Letter before action drafted & will go out on Monday to Abbey & the CRAs.

 

A little bit scared now if I'm honest; this is starting to get very real!

 

EC

[clarkenuttal]

Any updates on your case?

[evancosmo]

Clarkes post reminded me that this had been a while but.......Been a bit of a b@lls up; other half was supposed to be sending all the letters rec delivery for me & just realised it didn't happen - don't ask! They're going tomorrow.

 

Will keep you posted

[jomac1]

as per your response from experian i have exactly the same for exactly the same bank and reason, i am still waiting a response which was supposed to be within seven days it has now been 19 days and counting

[evancosmo]

There is finally a NOC on my experian credit file although it is barely worded in my favour (fool for imagining they would be!)