Ticket = Contract???

[DavidEllisJones2002]

Is a ticket to travel classed as a contract between the individual and the train company and on what grounds can they refuse to honour the ticket?? I was refused travel on the last two services between Doncaster & Grimsby last Wendsday night because I questioned the "dispatcher's" explaination of why everybody bags had to be put into storage. She claimed it was for "Elf & Safety" reasons...As every other reasonable person in the UK, "Elf & Safety" policies do sometimes make my blood boil, but I felt that in this instance, they were being used as a scapegoat by a "power crazy old jobsworth".. I eventually got back to Grimsby after spending £85 on a taxi. Obviously, I'm not a very happy bunny....

[SRPO]

Yes its a contract to get you from A to B.

However there are conditions which you must fulfil, one of which is to obey the instructions of an authorised person, failure to do so is a breach of the byelaws and also reason to deny travel.

[DavidEllisJones2002]

I obeyed the "power crazy old jobsworth's" intructions. I just verbally questioned the reasoning behind her instruction and pointed out that I didn't believe her. She then got all shirty and demanded that I apologise before she let me travel. At no time was I, what I would consider, rude or agressive. When I asked her for her name so that I could report her to her superiors for her terrible attitude, she point blank refused.

[SRPO]

It wont be difficult for the company to find out who was working that service on that day, why not make a complaint stating you didnt believe the power crazed old jobsworth and thought she was rude to ask you do put your bag in storage.

Not sure if you'll get your £85 back tho...

[andie_303]

don't ask, don't get - worth they try I think

[bongorob]

By refusing to identify herself the jobsworth has committed an offence under byelaw 24 section 3.

 

I very much doubt that she can order passengers to store their luggage away.

[SRPO]

By refusing to identify herself the jobsworth has committed an offence under byelaw 24 section 3.

 

I very much doubt that she can order passengers to store their luggage away.

 

 

codswallop

[timbo58]

Bongorob: I've never heard of such a byelaw, as long as the person is clearly identified as 'staff' they can ( & will) call themselves anything they like as you'll be able to trace them via their location and job title, FWIW My Uniform like my colleagues only has my grade and 1st name on it.

I believe the only time you are legally entitled to someones full genuine name is if it is an Inspector and you are under caution and being reported for an offence.

 

Unfortunately in the current security climate a person in charge of a platform or train can ask you to do pretty much anything to secure your luggage as long as it is deemed a 'reasonable request'.

Refusal to do so is certainly grounds for refusing travel.

 

What 'reasonable' constitutes is for the Train companys hierarchy and Lawyers to argue!

 

IMHO most people who moan about 'H&S' are exactly the same people who will then start screaming it from the rooftops/in the daily mail and quickly claim from an ambulance chasing 'lawyer' when things go wrong.

[Old-CodJA]

Relevant extracts from railways Byelaws

 

National Railways Byelaws (2005)

 

Byelaw 12 (2)

 

An authorised person may, in an emergency or other circumstances in which he believes he should act in the interests of safety, issue instruction to any person on the railway. No person shall, without good cause, disobey such an instruction.

 

Enforcement

 

Removal of persons

 

Byelaw 24 (1) No person shall fail to carry out the instructions of an authorised person acting in accordance with powers given by these Byelaws or any other enactment.

 

Byelaw 24 (2) 3. An authorised person who is exercising power conferred on him by these Byelaws shall produce a form of identification when requested to do so and such identification shall state the name of his employer and a means of identifying the authorised person

 

 

This does not say the authorised person must give his name, but must provide a means of identifying him / herself. As SRPO says, it is not difficult to identify the member of staff concerned. Not least because all platforms and many trains these days are covered by CCTV so not only should it be possible to see who it was, but also exactly what happened

 

By the way, there are also limits on what can be conveyed 'free of charge' as luggage on trains and a great many people abuse that daily, but in the interests of harmony, most staff generally try to accomodate and 'turn a blind eye'.

 

The worst possible example of selfishness is displayed by those morons who continually pile their bags onto seats on crowded trains and do not voluntarily remove it when a fare paying passenger requires the seat or, worse, argue about it when instructed by an authorised person to move it.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[timbo58]

Thanks for the clarification OC, I concur with your opinion of seat-hoggers, some of my colleagues will attempt to charge the full standard single fare for seats so misused as this usually forces the person to move their luggage.

I am reluctant to do such a thing as this then equates seat=ticket=seat which is obviously not true as seats cannot be guaranteed to a ticket purchase (how I wish they were as it would solve all manner of problems, although cause quite a few more with boarding controls etc!) I prefer to go along with the aforementioned byelaw and ask the person to remove their luggage once, demand they move it if it's still there after a short while and then remove it off the train completely (and the owner with it) if it still remains after this!

(In 15 years this has happened maybe 6 times), 3 times I have actually left said idiot behind and filed a report.