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eggie

Halifa CCA recieved but is it right one ? Or trying to fob me off

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Hi all

 

Just received my copy of my CCA from Halifax and hugely surprised at the turn around just 2 days that’s all it took them to post my agreement out to me , something a miss somewhere. Sorry i cant post the docs up as my scanner gave up on me 6 days ago so looking for replacement.

 

Heres the letter they sent me word for word.

 

I write in response to your request for a copy of your executed agreement , a copy of your current terms and conditions and a signed statement of your account.

 

the copy of your agreement enclosed with this letter complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit ( Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents )

Regulations 1983 ( the " Regulations").

Regulation 3(2)(b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of signature. In summary we are not not required to produce a copy with our clients signature on it. By providing a copy of the agreement complying with the requirements of the Regualtions the the agreement remains enforecable.

 

By providing you with the documents attached to this letter, we have satisfied our obligations to provide a copy of the executed agreement under sectuion 78.

As such , the agreement you have with us is fully enforceable and we shall continue to treat as such. We will not be entering into any further correspondence with you regarding

the requirements relating to the provision of a copy agreement. If you are using services of a claims management company we would remind you of the recent warnings issued by the Minsitry of Justice and Citizens Advice Bureau. You can find more details about both at :

 

http://justice.gov.uk/new/newsrelease170209a.htm and

http://citizensadice.org.uk/press20090217

 

The Ministry of Justice headline reads "Buisiness that mislead the public by claiming that they can arrange for unpaid loans. credit card debts or other consumer debts to be written off have been told to stop or face action Justice Minister Bridget Prentice said today, as new guidance was issued by the Ministry of Justice ".

 

Finally , we must remind you failure to make payments under this agreement will result in collection activities and ant default may also be reported to Credit Reference Agencies.

 

Yours Sincerely

The documents i got was this letter, A Statement of account with details of balance , credit limit etc. Credit Card Agreement Regulated by the Credit Act 1974 (states a copy for you to keep 3 pages)

Halifax credit card - Conditions of use( 5 pages ) but on front it reads as follows 1/340601-8 (6/98) and then in someones handwriting it states ( Out of Date see Leaflet 12/99).

 

Its obvious they haven't sent the signed copy so what do i do now and how to obtain a signed copy because of the letter i got i think they may not have the original agreement as it was taken out about 1998 -1999 and also wouldnt remind me of the use of claim companies.

 

any help on what to do now please.

 

Thanks

Eggie

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Hi all

 

Just received my copy of my CCA from Halifax and hugely surprised at the turn around just 2 days that’s all it took them to post my agreement out to me , something a miss somewhere. Sorry i cant post the docs up as my scanner gave up on me 6 days ago so looking for replacement.

 

Heres the letter they sent me word for word.

 

I write in response to your request for a copy of your executed agreement , a copy of your current terms and conditions and a signed statement of your account.

 

the copy of your agreement enclosed with this letter complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit ( Cancellation Notices and copies of Documents )

Regulations 1983 ( the " Regulations").

Regulation 3(2)(b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of signature. In summary we are not not required to produce a copy with our clients signature on it. By providing a copy of the agreement complying with the requirements of the Regualtions the the agreement remains enforecable.

 

By providing you with the documents attached to this letter, we have satisfied our obligations to provide a copy of the executed agreement under sectuion 78.

As such , the agreement you have with us is fully enforceable and we shall continue to treat as such. We will not be entering into any further correspondence with you regarding

the requirements relating to the provision of a copy agreement. If you are using services of a claims management company we would remind you of the recent warnings issued by the Minsitry of Justice and Citizens Advice Bureau. You can find more details about both at :

 

http://justice.gov.uk/new/newsrelease170209a.htm and

http://citizensadice.org.uk/press20090217

 

The Ministry of Justice headline reads "Buisiness that mislead the public by claiming that they can arrange for unpaid loans. credit card debts or other consumer debts to be written off have been told to stop or face action Justice Minister Bridget Prentice said today, as new guidance was issued by the Ministry of Justice ".

 

Finally , we must remind you failure to make payments under this agreement will result in collection activities and ant default may also be reported to Credit Reference Agencies.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

The documents i got was this letter, A Statement of account with details of balance , credit limit etc. Credit Card Agreement Regulated by the Credit Act 1974 (states a copy for you to keep 3 pages)

Halifax credit card - Conditions of use( 5 pages ) but on front it reads as follows 1/340601-8 (6/98) and then in someones handwriting it states ( Out of Date see Leaflet 12/99).

 

Its obvious they haven't sent the signed copy so what do i do now and how to obtain a signed copy because of the letter i got i think they may not have the original agreement as it was taken out about 1998 -1999 and also wouldnt remind me of the use of claim companies.

 

any help on what to do now please.

 

Thanks

Eggie

Hi Eggie!

Thats a new one! LOL telling you that Debt management companies can be prosecuted! for telling people their rights!However Cag not a debt management company and not trying to rip people off charging them large sums of money for things peole can do themselves!,so i would iimagine situation entirely different with Cag! Cag is just a debt dicussion forum and self help group and not a profit making concen agency! What a cheek though trying to imply people can not tell you about unenforceable CCA issue especillay as it is part of the consumer credit act and a human right that you have acess to advice about the law! and this is still a free country! Well just about! Still shows you how desperate these plonkers are getting! LOL


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Unsigned ts and cs supplied not enforceable! bet there is a good chance that a cca from those years not enforceable and they probably shredded the agreement as well:D

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfill your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with no personal details on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.[/font]

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until ??/??.2009 (12+2 working days after the request was made) to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office the time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit information industry.[/font]

I expect you to write to me confirming that the account has been closed and no further action will be taken.

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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The above letter may be a good one to send! :)Will find a few more !


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Account Number

Account In Dispute

Re; Barclaycards recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I am writing to say that i made a request to Barclycard on ---2009 under section 77-9 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a true copy of my agreement

I note that they have replied to the above by sending their companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that the company is still in default under the act..I wrote to Barclaycard on ----2009 informing them of this.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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and another one!:)


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Account Number

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Contrary to assertions made by (NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SIGNED LETTER) in a letter dated ----- 2009, Barclaycard has still failed to comply with its obligations under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

The set of documents included in your letter however, do not absolve Barclaycard of its obligations under section 78 of the 1974 Act.

 

Regulation 3(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) requires the provision of a true copy of an agreement. Although this need not be an exact copy and certain information may be omitted from a true copy, it must still be a true copy rather than a conjectured reconstruction and the information that may be omitted is strictly specified.

 

However, it is not the case that information need only be provided in relation to an agreement as varied or that only the most recent version of the terms and conditions applicable to an agreement need be provided.

 

Seeking to rely on regulation 7 in supporting that position is to overlook both the distinctions between the wording regulation 7 on one hand and regulations 8 and 9 on the other.

 

Although regulations 8 and 9 use the word "comprise", regulation 7 uses the word "include". It provides that copies provided in accordance with any section other than section 85 shall include either an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation or an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied.

 

Barclaycard would only have been entitled to provide a statement of the current terms of the agreement in lieu of a true copy of the executed agreement in the very limited circumstances in which regulation 9 applies (ie to agreements entered into prior to 1985).

 

Neither regulation 8 nor 9 applies in this instance, so the information provided must include the current terms and conditions and not merely comprise the current terms and conditions.

 

Accordingly, Barclaycard was (and is still) obliged to provide a true copy of the terms and conditions referred to in any application form in their original form, in addition to the current terms and conditions that have been provided.

 

I would be obliged if these could now be provided without further delay or prevarication.

 

In the meantime, the effect of section 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is that Barclaycard is precluded from taking any enforcement action whatsoever in relation to the account.

 

 

You are reminded that should litigation be your preferred course of action you will be required to provide the original document for the Court and that the courts powers to enforce an agreement that is not properly executed and that was entered into before 2007 are limited by section 127(3) of the consumer Credit Act 1974 .

I really think that the best way forward to resolve this matter to both our satisfaction would be for you to-

 

 

(1) Confirm whether or not you still hold the original signed and executed document at your offices for this account and that it will be available to bring to any court should any type of legal proceedings be commenced in future.

 

 

(2) Send me a true exact signed copy of this original agreement if you still hold it.

 

 

(3) Alternatively, if you still maintain you retain the original signed Agreement with all the prescribed terms as laid down in the regulations then I request to be allowed to view this at your offices and that you contact me in writing to arrange a convenient time to view the original agreement

 

 

I am sure that you will agree that doing the above will maybe resolve this matter and would also save future court time and costs, which would be in both our interests. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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and yet another letter! LOL I have used all three of the above letters in my Barclayshark dispute!:D As Barclayshark doing the same thing to me what Halifax doing to you! and trying to get away with sending me unsigned Ts and cs !


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2226238.html this is a link to letter susan edwards head of credit investigations and enforcement from OFT which makes intresting reading on these issues!:)

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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hi sunflower

 

Thanks for all your effort in findings these letters for me to send.

 

Gladly appreciate the effort and now will send one of these to Halifax and see what happens and see what they have to say. Keep you posted

 

Thanks

Eggie

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Hi Eggie

Glad to have been a help ! I cant beleive what a cheek the Halifax have and how arrogant they are trying to tell you you are not entiltled to recourse from the law and that you not entitled to use use it and people not entitled to pass information about it! I was speechless when i read your post,Francis Benion who was the draughtsment who helped wrote the Consumer Credit Act 1974 included the provision s127 in consumer act on purpose to protect the consumer and actually said if crediter companies could not bother to ensure the prescribed particulars were not accuratly included in the agreement it deserved to be found unenforceable! The arrogance of Halifax is beyond belief in that letter!Next thing will be the banks trying to ban law books! LOL

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Consumer Credit Act 1974 s 127(3)

As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson

for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust

Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section

127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company

couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in

the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have

power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament

without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed

that nobody’s human rights were infringed.

167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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i would be tempted to include that quote in a letter to the Halifax! Next thing will be the banks trying to get a law passed to burn all lawbooks ! like another dictator that springs to mind who odered burning of books he did not approve off!!:rolleyes:The above is a published quote from Francis Bennion who wrote -The Consumer Credit Act 1974

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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hi Sunflower

 

Thanks mate for the quote it's a cracking peice of work wonder what halifax will make of it when i put that in with the letter.

 

Best thing about the letter is that its just a bog standard issue asit says

"if your using a help of a claims company" they would know that if i was the letter they would have got would in the name of the claims company and not addressed from me. Makes you think that they dont check where the mail comes from.

 

Thanks

Eggie

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Hi eggie!

Again i am glad to have been of help! Yes i wonder what Halifax will think of that!:D.Apparently other Banks are begginning to issue letters with that warning about Debt management companies!ive been told!If any of them have the cheek to write such a thing to me i will be writing them same letter as you quoting Francis Bennion and saying that it is a basic human right to have advice acess to and use the law even if it not in banks favour!:rolleyes: and whether it be from a debt management company or Cag or a lawyer or a friend or relative we are all entitled from whatever source to help advice and knowledge about the law including the The Consumer Credit Act 1974 !Even a Debt Managfement company trying to make a quick buck out of situation is entitled to pass on and educate the Consumer about the laws in place to protect them and to me i can not see the difference between paying for and seeking the advice of an Debt management company or between a lawyer specialising in the consumer Credit Act issues as it all boils down to the same!We are all entitled to know our rights and its not as if they are being misleading people as both a lawyer and Debt management company both only pointing out the s 127(3) of consumer credit Act designed and written to protect the ordinary consumer and making a living out of it!Though obviously its better for us discovering CAG and not having to pay huge fees of course ! but still a gross infringement of human rights if bodies like the Ministry of justice and banks takeing action against organisations who are only telling people their legal rights and if that ever happens i will be ashamed of this country :mad:


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Just been helping someone else who got same sort of tripe from Halifax! LOL


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi sunflower

 

I doctored one of your letters and came up with this.

 

 

Take a look and tell me if any good ?

 

 

Re: your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Contents of previous letter noted if you actually looked properly you would have known that I am not using any claims Company as stated. As I am actually corresponding on my own

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies old and current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

Also may I draw your attention to Francis Benion

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s 127(3)

“As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson

for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on

Wilson v First County Trust

Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section

127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company

couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in

the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have

power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament

without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed

that nobody’s human rights were infringed.”

167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that the request has not been complied with.

 

 

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why not email Bridget Prentice

 

she dont like the banks scams anyway

 

and she is a helpfull person

 

her website

 

www.bridgetprenticemp.org.uk


NEVER FORGET

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Help Our Hero's Website

 

http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/

 

HIGHWAY OF HEROES

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/181826-last-tribute-our-lads.html

 

Like Cooking ? check the Halogen Cooker thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/218990-cooking-halogen-cookers.html

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why not email Bridget Prentice

 

she dont like the banks scams anyway

 

and she is a helpfull person

 

her website

 

www.bridgetprenticemp.org.uk

Hi Kiptower!

Yes i cant believe the arrogance of banks! i noticed that quite a few letters people getting lately contain that paragraph about debt management companies and saying they should be presecuted for telling people their rights ! I thought this was supposed to be a free country!


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2256202.html you should look at this link! This will make you laugh Another idea of a letter to write! LOL Thats if you dare!:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi sunflower

 

I doctored one of your letters and came up with this.

 

 

Take a look and tell me if any good ?

 

 

Re: your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Contents of previous letter noted if you actually looked properly you would have known that I am not using any claims Company as stated. As I am actually corresponding on my own

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies old and current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

Also may I draw your attention to Francis Benion

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s 127(3)

“As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson

for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on

Wilson v First County Trust

Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section

127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company

couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in

the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have

power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament

without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed

that nobody’s human rights were infringed.”

 

167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that the request has not been complied with.

 

 

 

Hi Eggie!

It seems good to me! but i just asked someone else to run their eye over it ! Also i meant to tell you if you have not been told yet! Best not to sign any letter if you can help it! Just print your name!;)


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Subbing

 

I have overlooked sending a CCA - Am I know best sending a SAR request?

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Yes sending a SAR as good if not better than a CCA request! I think !they are supposed to be even more careful how they portray and construct a true copy of original;)


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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