angimac help with Armtrac, please.

[angimac]

hi this is my 1st time on here i cannot seem to start a thread so am replying to this as its what i have a problem with.

i parked outside a shop it is a disability centre,i went in there for a quote on a product,when i came out i had been issued with a parking place standard charge ticket by armtrac

the shop has signs outside saying customer parking only,which i was,anyway i told the guy in the white van this and he said he had to issue it. on the ticket it says my offence code is no permit displayed,i told him i do not need to display a permit as its not for disabled badge holders,its for customers which i was and he said i could appeal for an extra £5 on top of my £60. it says on the ticket that failure to pay is an offence and may result in a prosecution and or passed to debt recovery dpt via dvla can anyone tell me if i have to pay this i have until friday 4th july 09 thanks 4 any help

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, angimac.

 

I'll move your post and mine to start a new thread for you

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[angimac]

excellent thanks very much for your help

[jkdd77]

Ignore it. It's an unenforceable mail [problem].

 

You'll receive a succession of letters, each more threatening than the last. Ignore everything, other than valid court papers (which won't happen, especially as the driver wasn't actually in breach of contract, as they were a legitimate customer making a legitimate enquiry).

 

It sounds like they are committing a criminal offence under section 40 of the Adminstration of Justice Act 1970 by fraudulently claiming official status "failure to pay is an offence and may result in a prosecution " (it isn't, and won't).

 

"40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors

 

(1)A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract, he—

 

(a)harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

 

(b)falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

 

©falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or

 

(d)utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not."

 

If you do anything at all, report their crime to the police, and to Trading Standards.

 

As a precaution, you might want to edit your post to remove any reference to the person driving the vehicle at the time of the incident.

Edited June 27, 2009 by jkdd77

[kiptower]

by your description this is a PPC ticket ( private parking company )

 

first the statement "it says on the ticket that failure to pay is an offence and may result in a prosecution" is a load of cods wallop

 

have a read around the parking forums ,

 

what you have is an "INVOICE" NOT A PARKING TICKET in the first place,

 

what written on it is a [problem],

[angimac]

ok thankyou feel a bit better after reading that

[lamma]

armtrack invoices normally are grossly unlawful and probably illegal. This could be one worth seeing a picture of - but of you do then wash all identifying details out first and just leave the text

[angimac]

ok here it is i think

[angimac]

i didnt seem to scan 1st pic properly so will try this one

[angimac]

it is early in morning the pics seem to small when i look will try once more

[kiptower]

still a bit small, if you sign up on www.photobucket.com its free, you can put it there and post the link ,

[Al27]

Doesn't matter, can see it ok.

 

Armtrac used to have shockingly illegal paperwork, but they've changed the wording just so it's now merely a load of rubbish.

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore the threatening junkmail you'll receive

• they'll give up and go away

[angimac]

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/angimac/scan0003.jpg i did it anyway, its shocking that they can get away with this but i shall take your advice and ignore them,thanks again

[patdavies]

armtrack invoices normally are grossly unlawful and probably illegal. This could be one worth seeing a picture of - but of you do then wash all identifying details out first and just leave the text

 

You bet!

 

" in contravention of the provisions of the Order"

 

"Offence code"

 

"Failure to pay is an offence"

 

"and may result in prosecution"

 

No company registered number

 

No company registered address

 

No VAT number (if registered)

 

I'd love to see a decent sized picture of the reverse sode detailing the "action you must take"

[angimac]

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/angimac/scan0002.jpg

[angimac]

i thought i should mention that as well as the shop signs saying customers only there is an armtrac sign saying they patrol the premises and wheel clamping or tickets are in operation. is it absolutely correct that armtrac cannot do this as im planning on parking there tomorrow and confronting him about this!

[angimac]

i missed out one line from pictue of reverse invoice underneath the appeals part it says

"full payment of pcn ticket admin fee must be included"

[patdavies]

Well the back is just as illegal as the front.

 

And the line you have missed off is absolute evidence of the fact that there is no appeal system. Do you really think that they would grant an appeal having got hold of you money (and their laughable £5 appeal admin fee)

[jkdd77]

My earlier advice to the OP to remove all reference in their post to who was driving still stands, however.

 

You can't be too careful with these bloodsuckers, particularly as they have been known to take their victims to court- in which case it would be for them to prove the identity of the driver, without which their case would automatically fail.

 

Don't give them any help on this front.

[crem]

Doesn't matter, can see it ok.

 

Armtrac used to have shockingly illegal paperwork, but they've changed the wording just so it's now merely a load of rubbish.

 

Al27, they still state on their invoice:-

 

Failure to pay is an offence and may result in prosecution and or passed to debt recovery department via DVLA

{/quote]

 

What offence do they refer to?

Prosecution. For what?

They clearly imply the debt recovery department is within the DVLA, suggesting the invoice has been issued by a government body.

 

I think that sentence pretty much confirms they are still acting illegally

[Al27]

You must have better eyes than me! Still shockingly illegal, but the last Armtrac invoice I saw was headed 'Penalty Charge Notice'!

[angimac]

well iv phoned trading standards who have told me to write to armtrac or pay? the sia only licence individuals not companies so they cant help, the police cant help with a private company and they have told me the courts will get involved if i dont pay?? the local council said they cant help if its private and to pay

[pin1onu]

Sounds familiar everyone passing the buck.....

 

You need to get back to trading standards. The paperwork is blatantly unlawful and could be interpreted as illegal.

 

Spell it out to them that it breaches the Administration of Justice Act, 1970 S40, The Unfair terms in consumer contracts 1977, and the 2008 Consumer Protection regulations. This is a best case scenario.

 

At worst the paperwork is in breach of the Fraud Act.

 

You're right about the SIA liscensing individuals. The principals of the company must hold non-frontline liscenses if employees of the company are actually clamping.

 

The police answer is disingenuous to say the least. The courts might get involved if you don't pay but bear in mind it would a civil claim and not a criminal prosecution. You've committed no crime.

[lamma]

tear the armtac papers apart using http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/164651-problems-ppcs-face.html?highlight=problems+ppc+face and FAQs - PPCs - fighting back. The forces are aligned and Results within legislation - Statute Law Database the list of violations will be enormous. explain them all to TS and remind TS of their duty to enforce.

[Al27]

well iv phoned trading standards who have told me to write to armtrac or pay? the sia only licence individuals not companies so they cant help, the police cant help with a private company and they have told me the courts will get involved if i dont pay?? the local council said they cant help if its private and to pay

 

Do you see how these crooks get away with it? Trading Standards, the police, council, citizens advice etc. have no clue whatsoever.

 

• do not pay

• do not conctact them

• ignore their threatening junkmail full of lies and intimidating rubbish

• they will give up and go away

• they will not take you to court

• it's a mail [problem]. Give out 'tickets' (unenforceable invoices) and send out threatening junkmail threatening court and obviously a great deal of ignorant people will cave in and pay.

 

Ignore it and get on with your life. Unless you want to fight them by talking to the organ grinders at Trading Standards instead of the phone monkeys.