I've got Notice of intended civil recovery. I NEED SOME HELP

[orange tree]

.......

Edited July 24, 2009 by orange tree

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump

[JonCris]

PM sent

[freethemice]

IMHo this is just a standard letter for shoplifters and should be taken as a warning if the demons call you again.

Doubt very much anything will happen now as the amounts involved were so small and the police were not called.

Go to confession flay yourself and say 10 hail mary's then forget it ever happened.

[JonCris]

orange tree this is a public forum remove your confession

[labrat]

would recomend removing it, im sure RLP has been monitoring these forums

[davidwright]

I've had the same from B & Q which I find ludicrous. Heres a copy of my letter to them which I hope explains my circumstances. I am now in fear of the police knocking on my door, being taken to court and above all, being banned from B& Q where we have spent a small fortune over the past few years.. Any help would be appreciated:

 

Oldham

12th August 2009-08-12

Dear Sirs

I am writing to you regarding an incident at B & Q in Ashton Under Lyne earlier today.

I bought 6 bags of gravel, which was the 5th time I had been in for similar amounts at the Oldham and Ashton stores.

I also picked up a hinge, value about £6.

As I picked up the hinge first, I put it on the large trolley which is open and is used for bags of materials. I then went to the gravel and had problems finding the correct bags which were on a pallet. I then put the bags one by one onto the trolley. I genuinely forgot about the hinge which was obviously hidden underneath the gravel.

I went to the checkout and the lady said “5” to which I replied, no there are 6. I then paid on my debit card and loaded the stuff into my boot. A security officer came over and asked to check my receipt which I had no problem with and he said I hadn’t paid for the hinge. I apologised and immediately offered to pay as I had forgotten it was there. I then had to go inside and was issued with a banning notice and a notice of intended civil recovery. I was absolutely gobsmacked as I had totally forgotten about the hinge.

My wife is currently working on the back garden , hence the gravel, and we are now 6 bags short as I can no longer go to the stores. I was told I could appeal to RLP Ltd and B & Q which is why I am writing this letter.

I never intended to “steal” any goods, and if I had been dishonest, I could have told the checkout lady that I only had 5 when she questioned it. I’m sure she can verify that .

I would be most grateful if you could reconsider this ban and civil recovery notice as it was a genuine mistake.

Yours faithfully

David Wright

[freethemice]

Found this on the Telegraph website for you. Would certainly be worth writing to the store manager explaining your good custom and that this was a genuine mistake because of the problem loading the gravel and your honesty with the checkout girl.

If I was a store manager I wouldn't want to loose a good customer for the price of an hinge:-

"One industry not feeling the effects of the credit crunch is the shoplifting trade, managing to clear £2 billion worth of stock from the nation's shelves in the past twelve months, the equivalent to completely stripping the entire stock, fixtures and fittings from six Tesco supermarkets.

Just how you stuff £2 billion worth of shopping up your jumper I have no idea, but on a daily basis, everything from sachets of cuppa soup to giant flat screen TVs are liberated from shops, right under the noses of cctv cameras and eagle eyed door security staff.

One of the reasons shoplifting is so popular, is because when shoplifters do get caught, they end up with a warning, perhaps a caution. This reluctance to prosecute is because apparently it's almost impossible to prove the offence unless the person is searched and found to have concealed something he or she had not paid for.

In effect, there are no laws to say you cannot walk out of Comet with a fifty inch Samsung over your shoulder, or wheel £250 worth of groceries out of Sainsbury's completely bypassing the checkout. The staff in fact are responsible for guiding you through the system they have put in place to collect payment for their goods. You are quite within your rights to demand an apology from the store manager for stopping you going about your business, hand his goods back in disgust and threaten never to shop there again."

[freethemice]

Can't sleep so found the following info for you. Hope it helps:

 

'You are likely to get a couple more letters.

We are currently looking at a change of tac by RLP to determine future responses.

There are as yet unsubstantiated reports of RLP now selling on alleged"debts" to a third party DCA.

This is clearly a worrying situation if indeed it is true.

 

None of the 30+ cases we have seen on CAG have materialised into any Court action,and I would not expect to see that of your case go anywhere near a Court.

Irrespective of whether you pay or not,it is reasonable to assume that your data will continue to be processed.

If you DO pay,then it can be seen as your acknowlegement and agreement that RLP have acted correctly in imposing these fees.

 

Although you may say that you feel some responsibility,RLP have not proved their case in asking you for £137.50.

 

No one pays money out to anyone without knowing exactly what it is for, and that it is justified.'

 

 

 

'You would need to make the application via a Subject Access Request for a copy of the tape, which can be in a format of your choice-ie DVD.

Perhaps you should write asking for details of the process required to obtain this since an application for stills or captures of CCTV images can often mean filling out one of THEIR forms.

Since RLP have been engaged and authorised by B&q,they share a responsibility to address your complaints.

RLPs sister company Cireco are also involved in tracing-moving house or changing names therefore would not take you off their systems.

You need to write 3 letters.

1 To B&Q asking them to clarify that they are in agreement to RLPs actions being acceptable in view of the situation and the checkout girls failure to scan.

What the process is to obtain CCTV images/footage.

2.A letter to RLP asking them to furnish a breakdown of the fees they are demanding,which shows clearly what the £137.50 is for.

That you require details of any third parties to which your data is being collected stored or processed,including the names of any of their associated companies.

A copy of their complaints procedures.

 

3.A letter to the Information Commissioners Office making a formal complaint,and seeking clarification as to whether RLP and its associated companies are within their remit to process,share or pass on your data without your permission. '

 

Wouldn't worry too much about the 'ban' very hard to enforce and you can always get a partner or friend to go for you. Quite frankly though if they treat you like this go to wickes.

Would worry that rlp stores your data and uses it on a 'dishonesty register' where prospective employers can check to see if you are on.

[davidwright]

Hi Freethemice and thanks for your response.

As the incident only happened yesterday, I have yet to hear from RLP so I dont even know how much they intend to recover from me. I think the amount you mentioned is relevant to the original thread although from what I have read since, looks like this is maybe a standard charge. Its comforting to think that I wont get a visit from the police and from what you say it looks like a "civil" matter. The letter I wrote was posted yesterday to B & Q Head Office, RLP and a copy to the store manager at Ashton so I'm just hoping they can see sense but I'm not holding much hope for that.

Its just so annoying when I think that this information could be held on computer about me which could affect future circumstances. Im 56 years old and had to give up work as I have chronic lung, kidney and heart disease so employment is unlikely to be a problem and we never go into debt for anything so even credit doesnt bother me, its the principal at stake here and the shameful treatment by a jobsworth security guard. I even thought about mentioning to B & Q as to why they dont have a small cage attached to the handle for you to put smaller items when using the trolley but I suppose it would fall on deaf ears.

Anyway, many thanks for your input. I'll await the dreaded letters and see how we go from there

Cheers

Edited August 13, 2009 by davidwright

[Button1]

Hi David,

 

Any word from RLP? They are pretty quick in sending out their letters of claim.

 

Your story is shocking and very similar to mine - an easy mistake to make which I'm sure many have.

 

Please keep us posted with any updates.

[davidwright]

Hi Button1

Yes got the letter this morning

They are asking for £87.50

Staff/Management time investigating or dealing with incident is £52.50

Admin costs resulting from my wrongful actions is £15.75 and Apportioned security and surveillance cost is £19.25

If I pay within 21 days its £70

I really dont know what to do. I havent heard from the police (yet) B& Q didnt answer my letter and I just feel by paying it is an admission of guilt. RLP have wonderful terminology and make it look like it's futile to contest and would make matters worse if I did.

They have even included a "Frequently asked questions and answers sheet" which also points to any appeal being a waste of time.

Cheers

Dave

[Button1]

Hi David.

 

Any word from B&Q? I doubt very very much if you will hear from the Police! B&Q would get into more bother for wasting Police time!

 

Have you looked through the other threads on this forum and decided what action you are going to take?

 

Button

[davidwright]

Hi Button

No, not heard anything from either local B & Q or their head office. Ive looked through some threads but most have related to similar happening to somebody in March and judging by the letter from RLP with their list of stores they act for, it looks like they are growing in strength. They have even added something to their faq's saying if you have a medical problem ( relating to your behaviour ) then they need proof. This doen't apply to me of course, but the way they word everything is that your are guilty in any case so you dont have a chance to prove your innocence. Since when has absent mindedness or forgetfulness been a crime I wonder. They are very crafty though as they say irrespective of any police prosecution it does not affect their claim as its a civil one due to my "wrongful interference with our clients goods"

I'll have another look round the site to see if there is anything similar. I dont hold out much hope of a response from B & Q either as it looks like they have mad their minds up and passed it on to RLP

Cheers

Dave

[davidwright]

I received this letter today from RLP

 

We refer to the above matter and recent correspondence.

Unfortunately, the informtion you have provided conflicts with what we have received from our client in respect of the incident. Our client has provided us with the following evidence, which they are prepared to put into a witness statement at the appropriate time and subsequently confirm in court.

 

You were observed on CCTV selecting a hinge valued at £7.98 and deliberately concealing the item under bags of gravel. You were subsequently apprehended outside the store after exiting without paying for the said items.

Our clent is therefore within their legal rights to pursue this claim for compensation.

We have only addressed the issues raised which have a legal basis any other points not answered are not relevant to the case. Your options are now to

Pay the amount outstanding by credit/debit card etc

Set up an installment etc.

Write opting for the matter to be arbitrated upon by civil court judge. This will enable you to fully defend your case, submit appropriate evidence and attend before the court to confirm your own evidence and test the evidence of our client.

 

Failure to settle the claim or respond within 21 days from the date of this letter will result in next stage action being taken against you without further notice.

 

Wow, what a load of claptrap.

I picked up the hinge first and as there was no basket on the handle, I put it on the trolley. I then put the bags of gravel on the trolley later and forgot the hinge was there!! How can this be percieved as deliberatley concealing?? I agree if I had picked up the hinge last and tried to hide it then yes that would be the case. Also no mention of offering up video evidence as that would surely confirm by my actions there was no intent to steal

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Dave

[Button1]

David, I have sent you a personal message.

[innoc]

Hi

.

 

Just read David Wrights messages and I received a response to my dispute almost WORD for WORD to David's and the costs are the same too.

Edited August 20, 2009 by innoc
privacy

[freethemice]

It all depends on how confident you are in your case. It is not up to you to proove you didn't shoplift but for the shop to proove you didn't make a genuine mistake. Does sound like rlp are reluctant to take these cases to court but would still put your name on blacklists and pester you for payment.

Not sure about the magazine in the newspaper. I do think a judge would have a problem not seeing this as concealment.

Would certainly dispute the B&Q case though. At the end of the day you offered the whole trolley to the checkout girl to pay. You were distracted and pressumed she had scanned everything. Surely this is the checkout girls fault as she undertook to scan your items! All you did is select your items and present for payment.

[innoc]

Hi

All sorted.

Edited September 7, 2009 by innoc

[innoc]

Sorted

Edited September 7, 2009 by innoc

[calshan]

I wouldn't worry about the Police - theft shoplifting has to be proved in criminal law for the police to act upon - the following must be proved:

 

"dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another with an intention to permanently deprive the other person of it"

 

Did you act dishonest?.....No

 

If dishonestly can not be proved, forget about the other sections of the law. All aspects must be proved!

[Lpi004]

An intersting fact is that cases of a value lower than the rlp minimum value are actioned on a case-by-case basis, to avoid adverse publicity. What were they thinking letting this run? I would have been more than happy to have had the goods back and at most issued a banning letter (assuming those involved in the detention were as convinced about the intent here as it seems). Even if there was clear intent, the paperwork involved would have outweighed the potential recovery of such stock?

[Mak-q]

Hi David,

 

Can you please advise the outcome of this as i have literally had the same thing with B&Q today (not me personally but my parents). I have been reading your post and responses. I will definately fight this case, as my parents don't speak good English so they really were bullied by the security at B&Q. I just need to know whether you had any luck fightig your case.

 

Thank you

Mak-q

[JonCris]

Hi David,

 

Can you please advise the outcome of this as i have literally had the same thing with B&Q today (not me personally but my parents). I have been reading your post and responses. I will definately fight this case, as my parents don't speak good English so they really were bullied by the security at B&Q. I just need to know whether you had any luck fightig your case.

 

Thank you

Mak-q

 

Mak-q 1st please start your own thread then PM me with your story

 

Also as many of your questions will be answered in them please make sure you read as many of the civil recovery threads as possible before asking for advice.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hello Mak-q it is a good idea to start your own thread as JonCris argues, it will ensure that you receive appropriate replies

To start a new thread, (as suggested by Sea-sidelady) go to the page you want to have a thread, at the top and bottom of the page there is a blue box which says...NEW THREAD. Click on that.

 

You will get an empty box up, Give your self a title, such as Civil Recovery/B&Q/RLP

 

Please have a read of this link. It has everything you will need to know to help you find your way around this site.

 

"How do I...?" A Dummies' Guide to this Forum

 

Also please have a really good read around the site. As soon as you are ready, make a post and some one will be around to help you,

 

Regards

 

Andy