DG Solicitors Response to Formal Notice(12 days elapsed) letter

[Xyberdobs]

Hi all.

 

I received a response to my formal complaint I sent to DG solicitors as they had not responded to my request for a copy of the agreement for a credit card.

 

I have attached the letter for your records and they only provided me with their latest terms and conditions and a blank credit cared request form without my signature.

 

Any guidance as to how I should respond?

 

Many thanks.

 

 

[rameses_qc]

I would ask (as a District Judge would ask);

Did you have a credit card?

Did you use it?

Have you made any payments to the account,whether regularly or not?

Did you retuern the card? Or do you still have it?

[angry cat]

I note that they make reference to Reg 7 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices & Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

Reg. 7 makes reference to a 'Copy of the EXECUTED AGREEMENT'.

 

A copy of the 'Executed Agreement' [Emphasis] is what has to be supplied, together with;

any other document referred to in it.

 

Until the above docs. have been supplied, your request under the CCA has not been complied with.

 

End of!

 

AC

[Xyberdobs]

Hi AC.

 

Should I just ignore them or should I send another letter to them and if so any suggested templates to use?

 

Many thanks.

[angry cat]

reg 3 of the consumer credit cancellation notices & copies of documents regulations 1983 states that signatures and names may be omitted.

 

However;

 

In respect of regulation 7 which states;

 

7(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either -

 

a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied;

 

or

 

b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

 

I am of the opinion that reg 7 refers to a copy of the EXECUTED AGREEMENT and that sub sections a) or b) are in addition to this and NOT ANY ALTERNATIVE to sending the "ACTUAL EXECUTED AGREEMENT"

 

AC

[Xyberdobs]

Hi AC.

 

Many thanks for the response on this again.

 

I have read somewhere that if I request an SAR then they have to provide the original agreement - is this correct? If so can anyone point me the right direction for a template letter for SAR request?

 

Many thanks

[ScarletPimpernel]

This is a standard template that DG send when they do not have the actual agreement.

 

You may wish to ask them (as a District Judge might ask), whether the the original executed agreement is in their possession, and if so, why they have failed to produce it, as they would need to do if they wished to enforce in court.

 

I do not think that there is any argument as to whether there was a credit card, whether or not it was used, and whether or not it was returned. Nor do I think it matters particularly, because without the original executed agreement it cannot be shown what the terms of its use were.

 

My own experience is that the HSBC/MCS/DG system will continue to send out templates (including ones threatening court action) even where they have admitted they have no agreement. What they will not do is go to court, because they are not that stupid.

 

I would recommend a SAR; in my case it provided documentary evidence that HSBC staff had lied to me, and also that they did not have an agreement and knew it.

[Xyberdobs]

Thanks ScarletPimpernel.

 

Should I SAR HSBC or DG Solicitors as I need to make a postal order out to them for £10 and how long should I give them to provide me with all the information?

 

I found this SAR template thanks to hellhasnofury in this thread (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/92686-sar-template-ppi.html) and was wondering if this would still be applicable?

 

==============================================

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Name xxxxxxxxxxxx

Account No’sXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to personal loan accounts and credit cards accounts

Please supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history with your organization, INCLUDING Loans and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization:

-Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.

- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my Loan Accounts with your organization.

-Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

-Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

-Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

I enclose a cheque in the sum of £10 to cover your fee.

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIALTELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

Yours faithfully

 

==============================================

 

Many thanks

[ScarletPimpernel]

If you SAR HSBC and include in the request all data held by subsidiary companies including MCS and DG you will get everything for one fee

[Xyberdobs]

Thanks again ScarletPimpernel.

 

As I only have the details for DG Solicitors, do you or anyone else have HSBC's address details and to whom should I make the letter out to, i.e which department and should I make the postal order payable to HSBC Bank Plc?

 

Also is the account still in dispute or should I make payments while I send and wait for the details of the SAR?

 

Also, if the account has in anyway been defaulted, would this affect my outcome in disputing the agreement in any way?

 

Many thanks.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Xyberdobs

[nicklea]

What dg say about a request under s77/78 is correct.

 

This is the problem with using this section.

 

I would suggest that you send HSBC a sar specifically requesting the signed agreement, or a s10 dpa notice and have a read of this sticky:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[Xyberdobs]

Thanks nicklea.

Do I need to make any payments while I send the SAR or is the account still in dispute?

 

Also, if the account had been defaulted a long time ago, would this affect the outcome of my dispute at all?

 

Many thanks

[nicklea]

How long ago was the account defaulted? If it was more than 6 years ago it won't be on your credit file any more.

 

If I were you I would ask for a copy of the DN as hsbc DNs are generally non-compliant.

 

If you are just making a token payment to them at the moment then I would suggest that you carry on doing this for now.

 

The address to send the sar request to is:-

 

The Data Controller

HSBC

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

[Xyberdobs]

Thanks nicklea.

 

Am I correct in assuming that if I request a SAR, then any default notices should also be included or do I need to specify this as well when submitting the SAR?

 

If memory serves me correctly the card was taken out in about 2005 and due to unforeseen circumstances, could not meet all my financial commitments at that stage and thus was in arrears for payments etc. Shortly afterwards the card was returned to HSBC and have been making payments on and off to DG Solicitors.

 

Regards,

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi ,

You might find this SAR template to be more specific to your situation:

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

Have a read through and if there's anything else specifically that you believe they hold, add it. Emphasise that you require a copy of your SIGNED agreement.

Send that to the bank. You might want to reply seperately to the Solicitors, stating that as far as you are concerned, they have not fully complied to your request and the account is still in dispute.

Maybe something on the lines of:

 

The alleged agreement you have sent in response to my CCA request is clearly a generic computer printout. Having taken legal advice I am aware, but disappointed, that you have chosen to send the minimum you feel you are required to send in response to my request.

As I am sure you are aware, in order to enforce any agreement you would be required to produce the original signed copy of a valid agreement in Court.

I therefore respectfully suggest that in order to resolve this matter as speedily and openly as possible, without wasting further time, you either supply me with a copy of the original signed agreement or a signed statement to the effect that you do not have one.

I regret I am not prepared to make any further payments to this account until or unless you demonstrate my legal liability to do so as requested above. Until this time the account remains in dispute.

However on satisfactory production of signed, valid, enforceable documentation I will be pleased to enter a suitable repayment arrangement.

Again, amend to suit.

 

Hope this helps,

Elsa x

[Xyberdobs]

Hi Elsa.

 

Many thanks for the response - it is greatly appreciated.

 

I will be sending the letters soon and let you all know of the outcome.

 

Regards,

[Xyberdobs]

Hi all.

 

It just gets better and better.

 

After I had sent an SAR to DG Solicitors, I never received a response from them and it seems as though they passed all the information over to Credit Resource Solutions Ltd. I again sent another SAR request to Credit Resource on the 17th of August this year and never heard back from them.

 

Today, I received a letter from another company called Newman Debt Collection Agents regarding the same account. I just don't know what to do anymore - if I send this new company a brand new SAR, I'm sure that they will just pass the details over to another Debt Collection agency and the vicious circle will just keep on going.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi again ,

This is what happens - they periodically pass the account on to different debt collectors. You just have to keep seeing them off every now and again until the 6 year Statute Barred period.

Rereading your thread..

things have moved on a little since then in that some daft judge has decreed that they don't actually have to send a copy of the SIGNED agreement to satisfy a CCA request, a reconstruction with original and varied T&C's will do. (Doesn't mean they can get away without the ORIGINAL in court though, although some occasionally try).

 

The SAR should have gone to the original bank. There's no point sending a SAR to a debt collector unless they own the account and you've been paying them for some time. They can only send records of what THEY hold on you, not what the bank held.

 

As it's been a while, I'd send another CCA Request to your new friends (much cheaper at only a £1 too!)

Let's see what they come up with then we'll start quoting CPUTR 2008 at them if they don't produce and keep threatening.

 

Send that then sit back and enjoy your Christmas

 

Elsa x

PS the current CCA template link is in my blog..it's been revised I think

[Undercover-Elsa]

When you send it, add that the account has been in dispute since xxxx.