Any help with proposing a settlement to MBNA/LINK

[Pandora_nini]

Hi, I had an MBNA cc - and to cut a long story short it was defaulted and sold to Link about two years ago.

 

Neither Link nor MBNA can supply a properly executed copy of the CCA - Link sent a defective default notice back in October last year, and I now the pleasure of two defaults (one from MBNA and one from Link) on my credit reference files. Link have not been in touch since, and I can't believe that they are just waiting for the right time to start hounding me - they must know they have an unenforceable agreement.

 

I could write to them both and insist one of the defaults is removed as I believe only one default can be registered for one debt, and then try to pursue them to write off the debt etc due to the unforceable agreement.

 

My question is this: I am in a position (through careful money management and saving) to pay off the debt (deep down I really want to tell them to kiss it goodbye), but I need to move on in areas of my life, and need to move home very quickly. I am thinking about writing to MBNA (a without prejudice letter) reminding them that they have been unable to supply the CCA, that they have sold the debt on, etc, and that although they offered to repay £1000 worth of charges to me they actually haven't refunded this to me at all (I have not chased them for it either as I didn't want to raise the CCA question - ie how can we pay you if you are disputing the validity of the pathetic application we sent you?)

 

I plan to make it an express condition of this offer that both they and Link must remove any data regarding me and the account from both their internal records and from the CRAs with immediate effect. I intend to give them 5 days to respond, with a confirmation that if they respond positively agreeing to my terms that I will pay them the amount offered within three days of their response.

 

Although I feel pretty gutted to give up on the fight with them, I urgently need to change things in my life, so although I will have lost the morale victory on this one, it would enable me to move forward and the long term for me is more important personally.

 

Does anyone have any ideas on whether the above is possible, would be accepted and is "do-able"? The amount I am intending to pay them is the whole of the debt minus the charges and interest.

 

Also, does anyone have any advice/views on how to word this letter and what to put into it to make it as strong as possible?

 

I would really appreciate any advice as I intend to post a letter to them either tomorrow or on Saturday.

 

Thanks

 

Pandora

[Pandora_nini]

Bump.... sorry to bump so soon, but would appreciate any views/detail that might help this?

 

Thanks

Pandora

[42man]

Have MBNA terminated the account ? Did you get a termination letter ?

[Pandora_nini]

I don't have a termination letter in my file, and I don't think it turned up in my SAR - I would have to double check.

They have definitely moved/sold the account to Link, which I guess they sold at a discount, I thought I might have more luck approaching them if they were going to get pretty much all their money back.

 

Thanks for coming back to me, I do appreciate it.

 

Pandora

[42man]

OK well if they have sold the debt on then they have terminated it....with an invalid default notice and no correct agreement they are pretty stuffed to be honest.....I would write a letter outlining the situation (any penalty charges ?) and make a full and final...Link would have bought the debt at 10-30% of its original value....

[Pandora_nini]

= amended

Edited July 1, 2009 by Pandora_nini
Removed personal details!

[Pandora_nini]

amended

Edited July 1, 2009 by Pandora_nini
Removed personal details

[Pandora_nini]

I am a bit worried that a) MBNA will tell me to get lost - even though it's pretty much for the whole debt less charges - as they've sold it to Link and refuse to remove the defaults, and b) Link will be straight on the phone/start court proceedings once they have a sniff that I have a bit of money and refuse to remove the defaults

 

Would they be sensible and recognise it as a great offer, or refuse it just to spite me? Knowing these two, it would be the latter!

 

If MBNA share this letter with Link, which they probably will do, and Link went to court, could they submit this letter as evidence, or would it still be subject to "Without Prejudice", etc, etc

 

Thanks

Pandora

x

[Pandora_nini]

Bump, any thoughts?

Thanks

[Pandora_nini]

Can I fax this to them as well as posting?

[diamondgirl]

Very good letter.

I image that MBNA would pass it to Link if as you say they have sold it to them.

Go after MBNA for any charges that have been added to account up to it being sold.

Yes I image the phone would start ringing from Link once they are informed of the letter.

There is no reason they should issue CC papers if you want to try and settle with them. After all a judge should (not saying they would) look at it fairly and say well you have made an offer.

The only trouble with an offer is they would most likely want more than you want to offer so if thats what you want to do start lower than you actually want to pay and see what happens.

Make sure you tell them you want everything in writing, no telephone calls.

When you do your offer make it clear that this is in good faith as they cannot produce a CCA and the defaults are incorrectly issued and you want them removing.

This is what I personally would consider doing but it is your choice.

DG

[Pandora_nini]

Thanks Diamondgirl, it really helps to have someone else's perspective on it.

 

I will definitely add in the "good faith" bit.

 

I take your point about offering a lower amount, and I think this is a sensible thing to do. The amount I am proposing is lower than the actual debt as I have taken off the charges and interest. I am keen to resolve this really really quickly which is why I have offered the amount of the debt less charges - the key for me is to get them to both remove the defaults and actually any reference on my credit file (got this done with Amex but had to go all the way to court). I felt with a higher offer there would be more success of achieving the default removal.

 

I also wondered if MBNA were going to get a large proportion of the debt back if they would take the account back from Link? Who knows... !

 

Anyway, really do appreciate the time you've taken to read the letter!

 

Thanks

Pandora

[diamondgirl]

MBNA when they sold the debt onto Link will have written the difference off on tax.

It will probably have been sold on to Link for around the 10 to 30% of the debt so if I was making an offer first off it would be around 35/40% of the debt without the charges and interest on so Link would be making a profit of settling with you so try the lower first, they will respond quickly, they do on everything else, then you could go in with a F&F of whatever but do not offer them the full amount and state it is your final offer (put that in bold and capitals) make it absolutely clear that there is no more money on the table. I would also mention once again in your F&F that they have not got a signed CCA as they haven't proved it.

DG:)

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello PN!

 

Firstly, I think from the above LINK now own the Debt, and will probably have paid maybe 5% for it. You need to write to LINK in that case, as MBNA have nothing to do with it if it has been sold outright to LINK.

 

Secondly, I think you need to adopt the frame of mind that LINK will not accept, and will not be reasonable. Plan your life around that, and don't think these people will play along with any desire or need on your part to bring the issue to an end.

 

Once you have adopted that frame of mind, then work out how you can operate and do what you want working within that annoying constraint.

 

Finally, only then should you approach them to offer a deal, because you must only make an offer that you are ready, willing and able, to walk away from in the highly likely event they will mess you around and ask you for more.

 

These people will be watching your Credit File, and will take a keen interest in it again the moment you offer them anything. They will want to try and see where the money has come from, or see who else you are paying off, to calculate what they can screw out of you.

 

For example, you would not want to walk in to a Camp of Travelling Horse Dealers to buy a Horse, unless you knew how to operate, how to negotiate, and what sort of Horse you were looking for. They are the experts at haggling when selling Horses.

 

Same goes for DCAs. They won't be a push over, and will play all sorts of little games to get what they think you have, once they catch a scent of your money. You will become an Agency Priority Target! They'll ignore the people struggling to pay, and will know you have bubbled up to the top for special attention.

 

Thus, plan it very carefully, your own life I mean, and only when you think you can manage with the fact you are stuck with LINK, only then make them an offer. Walk away if they mess you about, and don't ever go back or revise your Offer.

 

If you can re-draft your letter with that in mind, then it may be wise to do so. The trouble you face is they will ignore almost everything you say, because the act of approaching them with an offer will simply be seen as a sign of weakness. That's how they think I regret.

 

Perhaps draw up your letter of Claim against them, and get that ready. Get it all hot to launch, and be ready to file your Claim at Court.

 

Then send them a single Envelope, containing two letters:

 

(1) A Without Prejudice Letter, stating it is a single opportunity to settle there and then. Give them a short time scale. Mention letter (2) and say that is what will happen if they fail to agree to a Full and Final, as outlined in letter (1).

 

(2) An Open Letter, that includes sufficient evidence to show that you will proceed with Court Action within a set period. Don't mention letter (1) in this letter. Because as far as Letter (2) is concerned, Letter (1) does not exist.

 

The key is you must, must, must plan on walking away and taking the steps outlines in Letter (2). Convince them of that, and convince them you are determined, and they may well reluctantly agree to the Full and Final.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited June 27, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Too many Finals!

[Pandora_nini]

Hello BRW - how are you? Thank you for taking the time to respond....

 

Yes, I am stuck with Link, and although I don't want to get into discussions with them - I shudder at the thought - I was thinking along the lines of: if I approached MBNA, there may be enough money in it (my reason for offering them more than say 30%) for them to take the debt back and resolve it that way. I do take on board though that they have sold it on and claimed tax relief on the remainder. The key thing for me is that I actually get the defaults from both of them removed quickly!

 

To be honest I could fight them on the lack of CCA and incorrectly executed default notices, etc, but that would take way too long - I don't have the time to do this - so going this way is a bit of a bitter pill for me in that I would lose the morale argument, but for my next step in life it would be a positive thing.

 

Hope you're well.

 

Take care

Pandora

[Pandora_nini]

Hello BRW - how are you? Thank you for taking the time to respond....

 

Yes, I am stuck with Link, and although I don't want to get into discussions with them - I shudder at the thought - I was thinking along the lines of: if I approached MBNA, there may be enough money in it (my reason for offering them more than say 30%) for them to take the debt back and resolve it that way. I do take on board though that they have sold it on and claimed tax relief on the remainder. The key thing for me is that I actually get the defaults from both of them removed quickly!

 

To be honest I could fight them on the lack of CCA and incorrectly executed default notices, etc, but that would take way too long - I don't have the time to do this - so going this way is a bit of a bitter pill for me in that I would lose the morale argument, but for my next step in life it would be a positive thing.

 

Hope you're well.

 

Take care

Pandora

 

 

Also, if they have not served the notice of assignment correctly, then it seems from what I have read that they are obliged to send me a Notice of Assignment, which should have been sent by recorded delivery in order for it to be deemed served correctly. Without a correctly served Notice of Assignment, the sale is not “perfected” in law according to the Law of Property Act and the new “owner” therefore has no right of action.

I may not be understanding this correctly (highly likely) then even if they "think" they have sold the debt to Link in actual fact it has not been done so correctly and Link therefore has no right of action......

They did not write to me at all to let me know they had assigned the debt and certainly nothing turned up in my SAR, let alone doing it properly.

Thanks

Pandora

[Pandora_nini]

BRW, hope you've had a good Sunday - if I send a second letter with the first outlining my claim, would this be a Letter Before Action letter?

 

I guess I would include:

 

CCA requested, not received (quoting Consumer Credit Act details)

No default notice (quoting compliance with S87 etc)

Notice of assignment etc?

 

It is so very important to me to get this resolved really, really quickly - I have dropped the offer down to 40% of debt (incl charges), anticipating they will come back to me with a thanks but no thanks, but this might give me some negotiating power in that if they want more then they have to remove the defaults.

 

I still feel I have better chance of approaching MBNA - I have heard of DCA's handing unenforceable debts back. Link are so rubbish that even if they agreed to something they probably wouldn't stick to it.....

 

I know that your advice is to send it to Link, and I really do respect your opinions, but I think MBNA won't remove their default if I don't involve them in this "discussion".

 

Thanks

Pandora