Rundle & Co - Council Tax Bailiff - Heeelp!!!! Pleeease?

[jqinfo]

Stressed beyond belief enduring a hellish few years and very new to forums! So much so, I will apologise in advance for any gobbledegook, spelling/grammatical errors and sheer dumbness with which I ask questions, my brain just doesn't function correctly any more! To cut a very very long story shorter, I had to move from my home address to my business address in another town when the person living on site moved out (it is a guest house). When this happened my daughter refused to come with me, she was in full time education and wanted to be near her friends and boyfriend and apart from dragging her by the hair (that is a joke) there was nothing I could do to convince her otherwise. I struggled to maintain two households, my son came with me. I was busy dealing with the chaos that was left behind at the guest house and left my daughter to ring the council to deal with change of occupancy. I am told by the council that she did not. She said that she had, but there were a number of stressful events that may have interfered with her doing so, one being that she was a victim of domestic violence and we were all very stressed with everything going on around us. The council continued to charge me for the full council tax! I attempted to get a new manager/ess and thought that I would be returning and just as I thought I had found the perfect person, they "did a bunk" stealing a large sum of cash, complete with designer sheets, throws, duvets, duvet covers, microwaves, mini-fridges etc etc! Therefore, I had to remain where I am, for which I have been paying full council tax. As a full time student my daughter is exempt from council tax. There is an immediate payment of approx £430 for a period that I was present, and a further £980 odd that I have yet to establish. I have tried to log in to the on-line service at the local council to no avail, so that I can establish the various years/amounts. I have stated that I cannot pay the lump sum and I would like to pay by instalments and this has been refused. The reason being given that there is too much, approx £5,000, outstanding because they have not yet agreed that I am not responsible for the periods in question. They have promised to be round the early part of next week to remove my goods and if they don't find me at the house, they will come and take goods from my guest house. Can they do this? I am a sole trader, but most things I have are for the benefit of the guests or the operation of the business!!! Should the council have contacted me first at my business address? They had it from a previous application for CTax Benefit! I cannot afford to fight with a solicitor because my business has been closed for one year due to ongoing flood damage, bodge it builders and a useless insurance company, I am still closed, therefore I have been surviving on tax credits! Any ideas folks?

[hallowitch]

Jesus Christ you've been in the wars and then some

 

 

i take it the council have a liability order against your business and you also have an appeal going through regarding the amount due for this

 

(promised to be round the early part of next week to remove my goods and if they don't find me at the house, they will come and take goods from my guest house ) was this from the bailiffs

 

i think you are going to need more help than i can give as I'm not sure about business rates

 

i would defiantly go and see my MP

i would also demand an appointment with a senior officer at the council tax department

 

i will have a root round and if i can find anything usefull i will post it

[hallowitch]

National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

May 2002

 

 

 

Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:

• the elderly;
  
• people with a disability;
  
• the seriously ill;
  
• the recently bereaved;
  
• single parent families;
  
• pregnant women;
  
• unemployed people; and,
  
• those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.
  

[hallowitch]

Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and the Non-Domestic Rating

have a google at that

[jqinfo]

Thank you Hallowitch. I will do that. It is for council tax at the house nothing to do with my business!! & it was the bailiff who said that when they phoned me!!

Edited June 25, 2009 by jqinfo
Brain too slow to take everything in!

[hallowitch]

thats OK have you read round the forum do not let them in keep the door locked move car E C T

and i don't think they can go to your business for a domestic dept but until someone comes along to confirm this do the same at your business

copy the template letter and e-mail and post it recorded delivery to the bailiffs and the council ask the council to take the debt back from bailiffs

 

its always good to write to your M.P. (if you still have one) with copy's of all letters you send to the council and bailiff and ask for his help

 

amend this to suit your needs don't forget to keep copy's for your own records and calm down go make a cup of tea LOL

BY HAND

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Your visit to [1st LINE OF ADDRESS]

 

I write further to your visit by your bailiff and confirm I classed a vulnerable person for the purposes of civil enforcement in the meaning of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents directives on the grounds of:

 

 

a) I am a carer of a minor who is medically diagnosed a special needs child

b) I am in receipt of a prescribed benefit

c) You are causing undue stress on the child

 

Where a debtor falling into a vulnerable persons category is discovered by an enforcement agent, the matter shall be referred back to the court and no seizure of goods may proceed. I ask that you adhere to your own regulations otherwise:

 

i) you may be at risk of being reported to your certificating court on a Form 4

ii) you may be reported to police for pretending to have a right to commit breaking and entering and you risk a criminal record.

iii) I retain the right to apply for a restraining order against you under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 which you may be liable for costs

iv) I retain and distribute your photographs for crime prevention reasons

 

Please now quietly leave the property and return the case to the court with a copy of this letter.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

[jqinfo]

Will do thank you Hallowitch, I will also add a request to have total breakdown of all charges for each account, with visits etc and a full disclosure under the DPA to see exactly what they say.

Many thanks. Will do this after I have done the motherly taxi duties!! Back later.

[hallowitch]

your a quick learner you will be on here next week giving advice;)

[jqinfo]

Can anyone answer the question "Can the bailiff turn up at my business address where I now live and remove goods for payment of council tax for my house, bearing in mind I have paid the council tax at the business premises and business rates in full?" I would like to add a paragraph or two to my letter!

Many thanks.

[citizenB]

I dont know the answer to your question, but the site team are aware of your query.

 

When do you need to get your letter out ?

[Guest Happy Contrails]

"Can the bailiff turn up at my business address where I now live and remove goods for payment of council tax for my house, bearing in mind I have paid the council tax at the business premises and business rates in full?"

 

If the debt is settled, then no. Bailiffs cannot levy on good only to collect his fees.

[hallowitch]

i think they can levy goods at your business the reason i think this is because the liability order is against the person not the property address

 

having said that they cant levy tools of your trade business and the things in the guest house are tools of your trade

Edited June 25, 2009 by hallowitch

[hallowitch]

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

 

Legally, some goods that you need to live or work cannot be taken. These are “such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the debtor and his family. Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary to the debtor for use personally by him in his employment, business or vocation

[MARTIN3030]

I would agree that they could levy on anything they can find belonging to the named ind on the warrant.

Tools of trade excepted.

Theres a fine line sometimes with this.

We had a taxi driver on CAG some time ago-the Bailiffs put a levy on his taxi.

He disputed this saying it was a tool of trade in which he needed for his business as a taxi driver.

The Bailiffs argued that he could go out and hire a car !!

In another instance Bailiffs took computers and a cash register from a retail outlet.

The owner argued that he needed these since it was holding his accounts and stock control systems.

The bailiffs argued that he should have backup manual systems-specifically back up data.

A hotel would pose more questions-obviously they would not be taking beds-they are more likely to take other things.

[jqinfo]

How do I make a link?

[citizenB]

How do I make a link?

 

Go the item you want to to link to, highlight the URL that appears in the address bar at the top of the screen, copy.. then high tail it back to here, start a new post, then paste the url in the new reply box.

[jqinfo]

Sorry my brain just doesn't work at all at times!! Thank you all for your contributions! I do have a problem with brain function, yet to be diagnosed, usually labelled as stress, as is everything else they cannot identify!!

 

I have read everyones replies and thank you I do appreciate them all. I have spent two days now trying to read all relevant threads etc and you are all amazing, as is the site. I hope when I get through this I will be able to help others too!

 

I have sent the letter and a further note correcting a mistake I had made (after reading Hallowitch's info, thank you again). The council tax outstanding is for my house and I am awaiting full deatails of what is outstanding, I cannot gain access online for some technical reason or I would know already. The bailiffs have two accounts that I may owe, the rest is for the exempted period when my daughter lived at the address. When we have clarified the correct amount outstanding I will attempt to organise a repayment arrangement! The council tax and business rates for my guest house are paid in full but I worry that they may decide that the TV in the lounge/dining room may be superfluous to needs in the guest house even though they are for the benefit of the guests. My private quarters are actually of far less quality than the rest of the place because my money has been spent ungrading the guest facilities, mine will be done last, so if they do gain access, the TV there would be far less a loss than those in the guest areas!! I hope they don't take the computers because I offer free use of computer/wifi! Or perhaps they will say that due to my flood damage and being closed at present they can take all of my stuff!!?

 

My letter requests a breakdown of costs/fees, names and dates of certificated bailiffs in attendance etc, because my accounts seem to jump up and up, and I point out that I will not authorise or grant access to my properties. I have pointed out why I am vulnerable and that my neighbours should not be questioned and also added that they are being unreasonable with their requests and not allowing me/my family quiet enjoyment of my home under the Human Rights Act. Probably not applicable, but at this rate I will try anything!

 

As soon as I receive details of the costs I will see what has been added. The account has gone to and fro between the bailiff and the council and the court for committal to prison!! I have faxed the court the student exemption papers because I was too late to attend the hearing when I received the letter! Although I understand there are only so many visits that can be made/charged regardless of how many accounts outstanding, can they charge again each time the council places it back in their hands?? Also, is it fair that the council have my business address details and they have not contacted me there at all!! I have even rung them to ask a question about student exemption and from my telephone number they knew exactly who I was, no-one said "Hey, we've been trying to get hold of you regarding your arrears!!" Should they have passed it to the bailiffs before exploring my business address to find me?

 

Many thanks again to you all and I hope practice makes perfect for me on this site, it is mind boggling with a dozey head like mine! I used to be so quick and intelligent, even if I do say so myself, at least Alzheimer's Disease has been ruled out and mad cow, although I may dispute that one!

 

I will keep reading everything I can, but it is so time consuming, my brain can only take short bursts at a time and I have to reread several times because my brain won't retain much either!! I look forward to reading any replies and if I will be donating as soon as I can afford it. I reiterate, this is a fabulous site with fabulous members! Thank you.

[jqinfo]

Hopefully I can argue everything is for use of the business! I have borrowed the car that I am driving so they can't have that and the car on the drive is a total loss already paid out by insurance company so belongs to them!

Thanks again Hallowitch.

Edited June 26, 2009 by jqinfo
Brain!!!

[hallowitch]

I offer free use of computer/wifi!

 

well if you have that on your brochure/web site they cant argue that they are not part of your business

the TV in the lounge/dining room may be superfluous to needs in the guest house even though they are for the benefit of the guests.

 

this is in the guest house part therefore separate from your private quarters

 

Although I understand there are only so many visits that can be made/charged regardless of how many accounts outstanding, can they charge again each time the council places it back in their hands??

 

no they can only charge for 2 visits per year per liability order

and they cant charge for multiple charges

e.g. if they come with 2 liability orders on the same day they can only charge for 1 visit not 2 visits

 

try not to worry to much worry about the bailiffs charges and any levy if/when the time comes

getting the council tax bill sorted is top priority

 

you have sent a good letter( did you post recorded delivery) so the cant say you didn't know about your vulnerable situation and the cant levy car they have been forewarned it does not belong to you you know they cant force there way in remember you are in a better position now that you know your rights

 

if your guest house near the sea i might book myself and hubby in for a few days once its up and running again if its not to far away from north wales

[jqinfo]

Thank you once again Hallowitch.

 

The letters to Rundle and council were sent by fax!

 

I have five separate ref numbers from Rundle but all letters come dated the same days so they must have all liability orders together.  I await there reply as to the charges.

 

I await the council's account of what I owe now that they have the student exemption forms.

 

We are on the south coast, few hundred yards from the beach, overlooking the harbour!  You are welcome and assured a discount as appreciation!

 

JQ

[jqinfo]

Thank you Martin3030.

[jqinfo]

Sorry to keep asking these questions folks, but in addition to the one about whether the council should have tried to contact me at my business address before contacting the bailiffs, moreover, knowing that I am a lone parent and disabled should they have referred my case at all?? The more I think about it the more angry I become!!! That is one of the reasons I have not dealt with the situation, I am already thoroughly stressed out and when I begin to think about how things have evolved now I know more information, I am more stressed!! However, through this site I feel more in control, knowledge is power, power to make me feel that I may have a chance to get this sorted and pay what I really owe, not what they are dictating!!

[jqinfo]

Hi folks, I have been off line with the internet unfortunately and preparing my house for tenants! At least they can't charge me for their Council Tax!! Or perhaps they will find a way!!

 

Anyway, after sending my letter stating that I was a vulnerable person and requesting breakdowns and info etc, I heard nothing but the Bailiffs turned up on my doorstep at my business again yesterday, allegedly with a van, and state they will be back within 48 hrs to remove my goods.

 

My neighbour was at her window most of the time watching for someone to arrive and saw no van at all. If a delivery van arrives and I m not in she usually sees it and is at the door before he can ring the bell. No-one heard the bell! I wonder if they just put the letter through and didn't ring bell or bring a van and are charging for doing so?

 

Does anyone have any ideas on what else can I say about them flouting the rules with regard to a vulnerable person?

 

Many thanks in anticipation!

 

JQ

[hallowitch]

National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

May 2002

 

 

Enforcement agents must not misrepresent their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities.

 

the bailiff is misrepresenting there powers

 

state they will be back within 48 hrs to remove my goods.

they cannot remove goods without a valid walking possession agreement

 

send copy of that letter to council and a covering letter stating the above

[jqinfo]

Thank you once again Hallowitch! I am composing something now! Their letter states "I will be calling back within the next 48 hrs with Police if necessarry to complete my task. This action will be taken without further notice. I will seize and remove suffiecient goods and chattels as are necessary to clear the debt at public auction, this may include vehices. The cost of removal contractors and auctioneers will be deducted from the proceeds of the sale of your goods" and "TO AVOID THESE DISTRESSING AND COSTLY ACTIONS, CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY" He hasn't set foot inside my property yet to lay claim to anything and he hasn't even seen me in person!

 

I will write to them and copy it to council with a covering letter!!

 

God give me strength to keep this up with everything else that is going in!!

 

JQ