HSBC 'ignore' is their policy?

[greatburdon]

Hi,

 

Have requested credit agreement on 8th May s77/8 CCA

14th May received a blank agreement and reams of old/new conditions from HSBC which was obviously not what I asked for.

Sent 22nd May in dispute letter asking again for agreement.

26th received response stating they have complied.

29th May sent them my reponse, no you havn't .. try again.

19th June sent CPR 31.6 request for the agreement.

 

Today I have received the letter posted below.

She says they have not had a response...tosh. They have passed it onto Metropolitan (Is this HSBC's in-house DCA?). Can they do this when there is a dispute?

Plus she says I now have a default as reported to Experian, Equifax & Callcredit....Can I challenge this i.e. we are in dispute?

 

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBC.jpg

 

Time also to complain to OFT and FSO?

 

greatburdon

Edited June 25, 2009 by greatburdon
remove personal details

[spamheed]

Hi,

 

Have requested credit agreement on 8th May s77/8 CCA

14th May received a blank agreement and reams of old/new conditions from HSBC which was obviously not what I asked for.

Sent 22nd May in dispute letter asking again for agreement.

26th received response stating they have complied.

29th May sent them my reponse, no you havn't .. try again.

19th June sent CPR 31.6 request for the agreement.

 

Today I have received the letter posted below.

She says they have not had a response...tosh. They have passed it onto Metropolitan (Is this HSBC's in-house DCA?). Can they do this when there is a dispute? No they can't but yes they will/do

Plus she says I now have a default as reported to Experian, Equifax & Callcredit....Can I challenge this i.e. we are in dispute? If you dispute the validity of their "agreement" then it will take a court to uphold such a dispute as in "is it an agreement or or not?" They already know whether the agreement is enforceable or not, they are hoping you don't know - it's a game of "who blinks first"

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBC.jpg

 

Time also to complain to OFT and FSO? I would think so

 

greatburdon

 

 

Standard fayre for faceless financial institutions such as these, they rely on your ignorance to make a profit

[PGH7447]

you have left your card number on th forms

[accesspwd]

Yeah contact the OFT, they know what game there playing, and hopefully you do aswell

[greatburdon]

Received back a letter posted below which had enclosed my letter, also posted. I have already sent the 'you do not need my sig. letter' to a Ms. Hancock as part of my SAR, will she see this letter on their system?

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBC1.jpg

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBC-2.jpg

 

My returned letter has 'charged off' hand written at the top, anyone know what this means?

 

Also their letter is 'without prejudice' so presumably to be kept from the District Judge.

 

I am thinking of responding with the follow up CPR 31.16 letter making it clear that a sig. is not required but sign in an anti-tamper box, therefore keeping the timetable on track.

 

Any thoughts anyone please?

 

I can only assume they do not have a copy of an agreement to hand and are just fobbing off.

 

Thanks

greatburdon

Edited July 2, 2009 by greatburdon

[ScarletPimpernel]

Standard HSBC drivel. In trying to be clever, they have shot themselves in the foot:

 

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to your letter dated (date), the content of which is noted.

 

Whilst there is no legislation that requires me to supply a signature in these circumstances, it appears that you are not certain of my identity. You will be aware that pursuing a debt when not certain of the debtor's identity is contrary to the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection, and is considered an unfair practice.

 

It is surprising that you were apparently sufficiently satisfied of my identity whilst sending demands for payment, only to become uncertain when faced with a perfectly valid request for documentation following your threats of legal action.

 

In the circumstances I am unable to enter into any further correspondence until you have complied with my request under the Civil Procedure Rules. Take notice that any proceedings you bring will be robustly defended, and your non-compliant behaviour brought to the attention of the appropriate authorities.

 

Yours etc.

 

HSBC do appear to make a habit of trying to confuse. In my various skirmishes with them (all of which I've won), they claimed no less than six times not to have received letters for which they'd signed: each of their letters apparently came from a different person at a different office, which appeared designed to confuse: they persisted with non-compliant behaviour despite several complaints (to which they failed to respond properly). However, it seems that a lot of it is just process and incompetence; there appears to be no oversight that flags up problems and stops the activity continuing. When it gets to DG (their in-house solicitors), they eventually see sense and give up.

 

One of my HSBC threads.

[greatburdon]

Sent a letter before action stating that they had 7 days to comply with my SAR otherwise I would invite the court to make them do so. Received the following, they quote a section of the Data Protection Act (I keep stating there is no legislation which requires me to provide a sig.):

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBC01.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBC02.jpg

 

Do I just accept the revised timetable that they have now set?

 

Their acceptance of my signature is purely because of the legal threat.

 

Also they state that the Insurance account is a seperate entity so do I SAR them seperately as indicated by them? I am loathe to accept anything they say.

 

greatburdon

Edited July 5, 2009 by greatburdon

[UnitedFront]

Am I being quite stupid or have I missed something??

 

Did you send this bunch of half-heads a Subject Access Request or a CPR request?

 

Because this Sue Halfwit only refers to the Data Protection Act and the time limits given for issuing information under a Subject Access Request...... but if you made a CPR request then these will be different??

 

Just wondering?

 

Cheers

UF

[greatburdon]

Hi UnitedFront. I have sent a subject access request to which I am getting the 'we dont know who you are' runaround from Sue.

 

I also sent a CCA and laterly a CPR request for my credit card agreement which is being dealt with by a different Dept. it would seem .

 

What I am after is the SAR info so that I can calculate bank chge info and get sight of bank loan agreements. I have CCA'd and CPR'd the credit card account seperately although it should be in the SAR bundle if I ever get it.

 

greatburdon

[greatburdon]

Have received the following letter from DG Solicitors.

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/DGsolicitors.jpg

 

On the 6th June I sent the 'bemused' letter to Metropolitan Collection Services and also sent first letter to HSBC under CPR on 6th June as my CCA requests came to nothing (other than blank forms and reams of conditions)

 

Is the response to DG to tell their client, seeing as tho' you are solicitors, to provide a signed agreement as required in law and include all correspondence to date? Perhaps inform them that they are now under notice with the 1st CPR letter having been sent.

 

There was a 5 day gap between the Metropolitan letter (their first involvement) and the DG letter (the first from them), hardly enough time to respond?

 

greatburdon

[greatburdon]

Found this letter posted by 42Man (Thank You) ... Reckon this is the sort of letter to send, perhaps adding that I am initiating court action through my CPR request.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that i have outlined within the agreement, further more this has already been raised with (name of bank or previous DCA) yet I note they have still assigned the account over to yourselves and the absence of any documents disproving my points itself speaks volumes

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a court claim I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

[greatburdon]

Included a mention of my CPR in my draft....Am I on the right lines?

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that i have outlined within the agreement, further more this has already been raised with (name of bank or previous DCA) yet I note they have still assigned the account over to yourselves and the absence of any documents disproving my points itself speaks volumes

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. I have sent a letter dated 6th July 2009 to Helen Packwood, HSBC card services, again requesting a true signed copy of the agreement relating to the above account. This was made pursuant to Civil Procedure Rules (Pre action protocols and Part 31.16), with the intention of inviting the court to decide the validity of any agreement. Furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a court claim I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

[vint1954]

Their letters and requirement for signatures are just delaying tactics.

 

I got bored with it in the end and sent a signature, suitably altered from my normal, and they responded with the documents. Well, I say documents, the so called agreement was one filled in by them, not me. It was an application form from 11 years after the account was opened? They spelt my name wrong, date of birth and so on.

 

If they had your agreement, they would send it to you to keep you quiet.

 

Look out for their letter content and read carefully. They cherry pick the parts of the act that they refer to and also leave out odd words which change the whole meaning of a section of the act.

 

I have sent CCA and CPR 31 request. They only reponded with rubish documents, when they had a signature.

 

If you do not sign a request to them, although you should'nt need to, it only gives them reason not to sent your agreement. They had no signature of mine to compare it with, so it was pointless but worked.

 

It will give you more information to fight with, if they supply rubbish documentation.

 

Take a deep breath, another G&T and fight on.

[greatburdon]

Thanks for your reply Vint, I am now signing most of my letters in a 'creative' way and in an anti-tamper box so that there are no more excuses as to who I am!

 

Did you not follow the CPR through i.e. take it to court?

 

Think I will send the draft I just posted and see what happens.

 

greatburdon

[vint1954]

Thanks for your reply Vint, I am now signing most of my letters in a 'creative' way and in an anti-tamper box so that there are no more excuses as to who I am!

 

Did you not follow the CPR through i.e. take it to court?

 

Think I will send the draft I just posted and see what happens.

 

greatburdon

 

No, I Just keep reminding them that they have failed and pointing out how they have failed. I have been through 4 Complaints Managers so far. The same one never responds. I sometimes wonder if all of these managers exist!

 

The point to remember is that if they have no CCA, they have no case. If they get to Court without an agreement, the DJ has cannot rule, although some have and it has been successfully appealed.

[greatburdon]

Received this morning a court summons from Northampton. DG Solicitors are the claimant.

 

As i have never had an agreement just blank forms and reams of terms and conditions that may or may not apply I will obviously be defending this claim. Is there an example of what to state on the defence form? and do I CPR them to find out what docs. they intend to rely on in this action?

 

Basicaly I am unsure as to the procedure and would welcome some help.

 

greatburdon

[gerrard14]

please let me know how you get on as i am going through exactly the same thing as yourself.i would also get the court summons changed to a court in your town

[vint1954]

Received this morning a court summons from Northampton. DG Solicitors are the claimant.

 

As i have never had an agreement just blank forms and reams of terms and conditions that may or may not apply I will obviously be defending this claim. Is there an example of what to state on the defence form? and do I CPR them to find out what docs. they intend to rely on in this action?

 

Basicaly I am unsure as to the procedure and would welcome some help.

 

greatburdon

You may want to start another thread in the legal forum for best advice.

 

But have a look here for encouragement http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/223189-court-lets-woman-off.html

[Reader]

Subbing, I am a little behind you, I can't believe the gall of these people.

[greatburdon]

Hi Vint,

 

That thread relates more to PPI although i still hope to win this case.

[vint1954]

Hi Vint,

 

That thread relates more to PPI although i still hope to win this case.

If you read further down, the Judge says that the main reason for dismissing was the lack of original documents, in the form of an agreement.

[vint1954]

Hi Vint,

 

That thread relates more to PPI although i still hope to win this case.

"The judgement went against MBNA for a number of reasons," a spokeswoman said.

"In principle, because the deputy district judge felt that MBNA had not on this occasion provided the appropriate documents to the customer and as such was not able to rely on the clauses MBNA would ordinarily seek to rely on in these cases," she explained.

[greatburdon]

Thanks Vint, i obvo did not read the thread properly. Just trying to clear the head and plan a course of action.

 

greatburdon

[2Grumpy]

"The judgement went against MBNA for a number of reasons," a spokeswoman said.

"In principle, because the deputy district judge felt that MBNA had not on this occasion provided the appropriate documents to the customer and as such was not able to rely on the clauses MBNA would ordinarily seek to rely on in these cases," she explained.

Is that what the judgement says or is that what MBNA says?

 

You can only rely on one of those as being correct...

[vint1954]

Quote by the reporter, not sure who the spokeswoman was.

 

It is on the BBC news website