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carpinjoy

Cca I.f. Received Is It Legal

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Just got my cca from I.F. and it is the standard one with no signature, they are quoting Regulation 3(2)(b) saying that they can omit signature box and signature, I smell a rat, If they had a cca with my signature on it why not send a copy and avoid all the hassle, with all that has gone on before would you not think if they had one they would strive to find it. What would be my next step as I am in severe financial difficulties, I have set up a standing order with many credit cards and one bank account for a minimum payment. I also recieved cca from skycard which I think is enforcable, I will start another thread and post it in the proper place if I can sort out the photobucket as to how to link it onto this site, as you can gather I am not used to computers and how to link things up. As the other CCAs come in I will do the same. Much help needed here. I know the CCA from I.F. Is the standard one as I have seen many on this site.

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Just a quicky, do I now put in a letter of accont in dispute or is there another course of action first, help required please, also to what address should it be sent to. KEEP GOING CLAGGERS WE WILL WIN.

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Have a look guys & gals, it does not look good for them if this is the best they can do, what should my next move be

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Hi Carpinjoy!

what year was your agreement taken out? was it for a credit card or loan?

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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LOL The arrogance of banks unbeilievable ! Seems to be a new tactic telling you that Debt management companies can be prosecuted! for telling people their rights!However Cag not a debt management company and not trying to rip people off charging them large sums of money for things peole can do themselves!,so i would iimagine situation entirely different with Cag! Cag is just a debt dicussion forum and self help group and not a profit making concen agency! What a cheek though trying to imply people can not tell you about unenforceable CCA issue especillay as it is part of the consumer credit act and a human right that you have acess to advice about the law! and this is still a free country! Well just about! Still shows you how desperate these plonkers are getting! LOL Your the second person i sent this sort of post too! What sort of country is this turning into where organisations can be presecuted for telling people their rights though!:mad:


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi sunflower, I totaly agree with you on the way they have worded the statement it is just another tactic they are using, Im afraid if that is the best that they can come up with they are on a hiding to nothing, because they must now realise the power this site has to help consumers with their LEGAL RIGHTS, WHICH LETS FACE IT THEY DONT WANT THE ORDINERY PERSON IN THE STREET TO KNOW. Well thanks to this site this little insignificant person does. We are not sheep, also cag is not instructing people to do this or that, just giving out information that may help people you lets be honest clearly need some help and advice. Now regards my I.F it is a credit card taken out 2006. Thanks and keep posting sunflower you are a godsend.

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Hi carpinjoy!

Glad to have been of help! so far what they have sent you ie unsigned ts and cs totally unenforceable! but the big gamble is there is always the possibility of them coming up with an enforceable agreement in future and being 2006 there is more chance of them having an enforceable one than one taken out say in 2003 or earlier! but like you say why dont they produce a signed one if they got one! However banks are playing silly beggers at momnent and have a policy sometimes of purposly not producing the signed document in all cases whether they got one or not to confuse people and make people not sure whether they hold one or not Barclaycard do that a lot,So what you need to do i think is keep on at them to try and force their hand as luckily all pre 2007 agreements can not legally be enforced by a court if prescribed terms and signature not on same document but the gamble in your case is have they got one and playing silly beggers or as you say they do not hold one and have shreeded it or got an unenforceable one! and trying to hide behind fact with that stupid letter! I will find some letters you could sent them !


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfill your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with no personal details on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.[/font]

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until ??/??.2009 (12+2 working days after the request was made) to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office the time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit information industry.[/font]

I expect you to write to me confirming that the account has been closed and no further action will be taken.

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Account Number

Account In Dispute

Re; Barclaycards recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I am writing to say that i made a request to Barclycard on ---2009 under section 77-9 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a true copy of my agreement

I note that they have replied to the above by sending their companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that the company is still in default under the act..I wrote to Barclaycard on ----2009 informing them of this.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Account Number

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Contrary to assertions made by (NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SIGNED LETTER) in a letter dated ----- 2009, Barclaycard has still failed to comply with its obligations under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

The set of documents included in your letter however, do not absolve Barclaycard of its obligations under section 78 of the 1974 Act.

 

Regulation 3(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) requires the provision of a true copy of an agreement. Although this need not be an exact copy and certain information may be omitted from a true copy, it must still be a true copy rather than a conjectured reconstruction and the information that may be omitted is strictly specified.

 

However, it is not the case that information need only be provided in relation to an agreement as varied or that only the most recent version of the terms and conditions applicable to an agreement need be provided.

 

Seeking to rely on regulation 7 in supporting that position is to overlook both the distinctions between the wording regulation 7 on one hand and regulations 8 and 9 on the other.

 

Although regulations 8 and 9 use the word "comprise", regulation 7 uses the word "include". It provides that copies provided in accordance with any section other than section 85 shall include either an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation or an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied.

 

Barclaycard would only have been entitled to provide a statement of the current terms of the agreement in lieu of a true copy of the executed agreement in the very limited circumstances in which regulation 9 applies (ie to agreements entered into prior to 1985).

 

Neither regulation 8 nor 9 applies in this instance, so the information provided must include the current terms and conditions and not merely comprise the current terms and conditions.

 

Accordingly, Barclaycard was (and is still) obliged to provide a true copy of the terms and conditions referred to in any application form in their original form, in addition to the current terms and conditions that have been provided.

 

I would be obliged if these could now be provided without further delay or prevarication.

 

In the meantime, the effect of section 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is that Barclaycard is precluded from taking any enforcement action whatsoever in relation to the account.

 

 

You are reminded that should litigation be your preferred course of action you will be required to provide the original document for the Court and that the courts powers to enforce an agreement that is not properly executed and that was entered into before 2007 are limited by section 127(3) of the consumer Credit Act 1974 .

I really think that the best way forward to resolve this matter to both our satisfaction would be for you to-

 

 

(1) Confirm whether or not you still hold the original signed and executed document at your offices for this account and that it will be available to bring to any court should any type of legal proceedings be commenced in future.

 

 

(2) Send me a true exact signed copy of this original agreement if you still hold it.

 

 

(3) Alternatively, if you still maintain you retain the original signed Agreement with all the prescribed terms as laid down in the regulations then I request to be allowed to view this at your offices and that you contact me in writing to arrange a convenient time to view the original agreement

 

 

I am sure that you will agree that doing the above will maybe resolve this matter and would also save future court time and costs, which would be in both our interests. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours Faithfully


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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A few letters that may suit!i used them all in my Barclayshark dispute as Barclayshark doing the same to me that this one doing to you trying to get away with just sending me some unsigned ts and cs! :)


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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I headed them all account in dispute!


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi sunflower, I totaly agree with you on the way they have worded the statement it is just another tactic they are using, Im afraid if that is the best that they can come up with they are on a hiding to nothing, because they must now realise the power this site has to help consumers with their LEGAL RIGHTS, WHICH LETS FACE IT THEY DONT WANT THE ORDINERY PERSON IN THE STREET TO KNOW. Well thanks to this site this little insignificant person does. We are not sheep, also cag is not instructing people to do this or that, just giving out information that may help people you lets be honest clearly need some help and advice. Now regards my I.F it is a credit card taken out 2006. Thanks and keep posting sunflower you are a godsend.

Yes i cant believe the cheek they have saying we have no right to acess to the law or to receive advice about it and whether it be a Debt management company making a fast buck or a lawyer or CAG or a friend !we are all entitled to give or receive advice about the law and if the ministry of justice presecutes a debt management company for telling the consumer the law i will be ashamed of this country and think we are getting towards a dictatorsship! LOL Next thing is the banks will be telling the goverment to burn all consumer law books!:mad:


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Nice one sunflower99, totaly agree things are certainly getting worse in this country, I can only hope someone with the power to do something about it, does and just not talk or shake his or her head. I will use the information that you have kindly posted, I have a lot of typing to do so I will post again soon. PS look out for my other threads capone is a cracker. Thanks again sunflower99.

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Hi Carpinjoy!

Glad i was able to be of some help! and lets hope you give the Halifax beggers some grief!:D


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Will have a look at your other threads too! I am in the crapital one fan club too!:D


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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if you follow link and look at post 1128 on my Crapital one thread you will see a hilarious letter Lexis just composed in answer to your banks pathetic letter tactic


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Morning all, I have sent letter to I.F and CRAP ONE ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE with the help of our colleague sunflower99 (invaluable the woman). I will now sit back and see what rubbish I am hit with. Good hunting.

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Morning all, I have sent letter to I.F and CRAP ONE ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE with the help of our colleague sunflower99 (invaluable the woman). I will now sit back and see what rubbish I am hit with. Good hunting.

Thanks for compliment!:)


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Good morning sunflower99, you deserve the compliment quick update for you, sent SAR to YB now sorting claim for bank charges, I have so many things going on at the same time sometimes my head is in a spin. I will keep you posted in the relevant thread if I can find it again. I read the post Lexis put up FANTASTIC (tears of laughter) what imagination he has, it is so nice to see the funny side of things sometimes.

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Good morning sunflower99, you deserve the compliment quick update for you, sent SAR to YB now sorting claim for bank charges, I have so many things going on at the same time sometimes my head is in a spin. I will keep you posted in the relevant thread if I can find it again. I read the post Lexis put up FANTASTIC (tears of laughter) what imagination he has, it is so nice to see the funny side of things sometimes.

Yes! That one thing about this site just as important as the practical help is the friendship and moral support we give each other on these forums and i think having a sense of humour about things so important as it makes any thing life throws at us a lot easier to bear and keep a sense of perspetive about things!

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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I have sent in a letter titled Account in Dispute lets wait and see what comes next, I will keep you all updated as it unfolds, what they have sent is crap, and I for one will not take this lying down, they all have got away with so much, it is about time we all stood up to be counted. This boy will not go away I am going to be the wart on the end of their nose.

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Good for you :D!


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Account in dispute recieved by them 09/07/09, have had no reply as yet, allthough I am still recieving statements with charges on them, last two letters from them were dated after they recieved my accont in dipute. They can stick it where the sun dont shine untill I recieve a letter responding to my request of account in dispute, I have proof of delivery. Now do I send another letter titled LBA or wait, comments please

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