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Rent Overpayments Disputed


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I have been asked to post this on behalf of a friend who does not yet have access.

 

She is being pursued by The Benefit Services For some £2,500 in rent overpayment's for rent/services for a room she let to a homeless man formerly accommodated by the same Council Benefit Services that is now threatening her. The circumstances are outlined in the draft letter of appeal below.

 

Please advise! I don't know what I am doing! Should she send this as is or what amendments would you suggest?

 

************ Benefit Services

************************ 19th June 2009

 

APPEAL

 

Re: Your Invoice Number: *****

Dated: **.06.2009 + Phone call.

 

Appeal Regarding Your asserted overpayment of £2,573.21.

I am shocked and dismayed that you are attempting to recover this sum from me with threat of further costs and potential legal action!

 

I hereby appeal against this decision. My reasons and circumstances follow:

 

I do not understand on what legal basis you have a claim against me.

The money was part payment for rents due to me from Mr ("the tenant") for the period of his tenancy. Paid by you into my account.

 

It should be noted that Mr ("the tenant") to date, owes me some £2,557 in rent and bill arrears for the period of his tenancy and was evicted for non payment of rent arrears.

This money was paid to me, an individual, a small private landlord renting a bedroom in my house, by you the Benefit Services, for rent claimed by a third party. My former tenant Mr ("the tenant").

 

My understanding is:

 

That you paid the sum to me for rent claimed by Mr ("the tenant").

That this payment resulted from claim/s for rent and or benefits by Mr ("the tenant"). - A matter between the Benefit Agency and Mr ("the tenant"). The detail of which is of no more concern to me than any other landlord in the U.K. save beyond that that the rent is paid.

 

The eligibility of Mr ("the tenant") at any point in time is not information I am party to. It is again a matter between the Benefit Agency and Mr ("the tenant").

 

Benefit legislation and eligibility is something I know nothing about save TV adverts offering ongoing support for those re starting work. Which is what I assumed was the case when the payments were continued by you for the brief period/s Mr ("the tenant") informed me he was working.

 

If you consider that you have made overpayment on behalf of Mr ("the tenant") due to his alleged in eligibility then you should seek to recover the monies from him. This a matter to which both Benefit Services and Mr ("the tenant") are legally, contractually bound,- not I. In consideration of the above I cannot see how I “have been unjustly enriched,” I request the claim be rescinded / estopped.

 

I work hard for often very long hours and low pay as a care assistant. I struggle to make ends meet and pay my mortgage. I met Mr ("the tenant"), a Liverpudlian, through a friend and near neighbor. On arrival in *********, he was homeless and using the services of ******* City Council Homeless Persons Unit Day Center, Night Shelter, etc.

He has a number of issues, and disabilities and I felt sorry for him.

 

I had advertised the spare room in my house for rent as I was really struggling on my own for money. I let him have the room without the months rent as deposit I had intended. He was destitute, and penniless.

I offered him the room, inclusive of food and bills, originally for £473 pm, which he claimed from you for a while.

 

He later found employment as a security guard and paid the rent/bills himself in full to me for a while. I understand that he lost his job due to not having the ability to take the security guards exam, he went back on benefits.

 

I had no idea when he was in work, on benefit or not, - other than his say so, the forms he showed me, and your payments on his behalf. I understand from Mr ("the tenant") that In March 2008, the Benefit Services cut his payments to £173.63 due to his declaring restarting part time work. He assured me at the time that he would make up the short fall from his wages. He failed to do so and grew further indebted to me.

 

Other than renting him a room we lived separate lives. I often work a 60hr + hour week, I have two daughters, and grand children who live locally and I visit a lot. I have a busy social life. Home to me is where I sleep. What exactly transpires in a tenants life is simply not going to be on my radar.

 

Matters deteriorated rapidly when Mr ("the tenant") borrowed money from me and failed to repay it. He ran up considerable debts and has caused me serious problems as people and businesses are pursuing him for the debts at my address, causing me considerable distress. I became aware that he has a serious gambling habit, and believe many of his debts result from this.

 

We have had many rows about money and his failure to move out, keep the place clean, his rudeness to me and my relatives, etc. I gave him notice to quit in April 2008. This caused a number of very bad rows and I felt unable to stand up to him as he was mentally and verbally abusive. He simply ignored the notice to quit, and my every repeated request that he leave. This has been the situation for many months.

 

I dread coming home to face yet another confrontation and abuse. I was greatly relived when he left. I have had the locks changed. To put it mildly, he has been an extremely objectionable tenant, and owes me some £2,600 in rent and bill arrears.

 

When you obtain a forwarding address for Mr ("the tenant") please forward it to me so that he can be served with an injunction / non contact harassment order. I can send the people chasing him for debt on to him. I am sick of people pursuing him at my address.

 

I received payment from you through your admitted oversight, - not mine. Oversight, and consequent situation of which I was neither aware or responsible for.

 

I received payment from you upon which I acted in reliance upon. I paid my mortgage with it.

 

Consequently I am in a position from which I cannot revert, In that the rent was paid into my mortgage account.

 

In consideration of all of the above I cannot see how I “have been unjustly enriched,” I request the claim be estopped. I do not understand on what basis you have claim against me in law. - I cannot understand why you are pursuing me and not Mr ("the tenant")..

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

******

 

The above was written with reference to general advice on the Debt Forum, and posts on the Benefits Forum by Silverfox1961 and installspark in thread posted by Big Boss man: East Riding of Yorkshire Council Overpayment's - part 2. Link / clicky:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/203059-east-riding-yorkshire-council.html

 

Advice would be very much appreciated, - Thankyou!

Edited by Zombe
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I received payment from you through your admitted oversight, - not mine. Oversight, and consequent situation of which I was neither aware or responsible for.

 

I would put this part in at the start of the reason for appeal, citing:-

 

The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006

 

Recoverable overpayments

100
- (1) Any overpayment, except one to which paragraph (2) applies, shall be recoverable.

(2) Subject to paragraph (4) this paragraph applies to an overpayment caused by an official error where the claimant or a person acting on his behalf or any other person to whom the payment is made could not, at the time of receipt of the payment or of any notice relating to that payment, reasonably have been expected to realise that it was an overpayment.

(3) In paragraph (2), "overpayment caused by official error" means an overpayment caused by a mistake made whether in the form of an act or omission by—

(a) the relevant authority;

(b) an officer or person acting for that authority;

© an officer of —

(i) the Department for Work and Pensions; or

(ii) Revenue and Customs,
acting as such; or

(d) a person providing services to the Department for Work and Pensions or to the Commissioners for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs,

where the claimant, a person acting on his behalf or any other person to whom the payment is made, did not cause or materially contribute to that mistake, act or omission.

(4) Where in consequence of an official error, a person has been awarded rent rebate to which he was not entitled or which exceeded the benefit to which he was entitled, upon the award being revised any overpayment of benefit, which remains credited to him by the relevant authority in respect of a period after the date on which the revision took place, shall be recoverable.

 

As amended by

The Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2008

 

Amendments to the Housing Benefit Regulations relating to overpayments

4.—(1) The Housing Benefit Regulations shall be amended as follows.

(2) In regulation 101 (person from whom recovery may be sought)—

(a) for paragraph (2)(
13
) substitute—

“(2) For the purposes of section 75(3)(b) of the Administration Act (recovery from such other person, as well as or instead of the person to whom the overpayment was made), where recovery of an overpayment is sought by a relevant authority—

(a) subject to paragraph (1) and where sub-paragraph (b) or © does not apply, the overpayment is recoverable from the claimant as well as the person to whom the payment was made, if different;

(b) in a case where an overpayment arose in consequence of a misrepresentation of or a failure to disclose a material fact (in either case, whether fraudulently or otherwise) by or on behalf of the claimant, or by or on behalf of any person to whom the payment was made, the overpayment is only recoverable from any person who misrepresented or failed to disclose that material fact instead of, if different, the person to whom the payment was made; or

© in a case where an overpayment arose in consequence of an official error where the claimant, or a person acting on the claimant’s behalf, or any person to whom the payment was paid, or any person acting on their behalf, could reasonably have been expected, at the time of receipt of the payment or of any notice relating to that payment, to realise that it was an overpayment, the overpayment is only recoverable from any such person instead of, if different, the person to whom the payment was made.”;

(b) in paragraph (3A)(
14
) for “paragraph (2)(a)(ii)” substitute “paragraph (2)©”; and

© omit paragraph (4)(
15
).

(3) In regulation 102(16) (method of recovery)—

(a) in paragraph (1) for “regulation 105” substitute “regulation 105(1)”;

(b) after paragraph (1) insert—

“(1ZA) Where an overpayment is recoverable from a claimant who has one or more partners, a relevant authority may recover the overpayment by deduction from any housing benefit payable to the claimant’s partner, or where it is unable to do so, may request the Secretary of State to recover any recoverable overpayment from the benefits prescribed in regulation 105(1B) (recovery of overpayments from prescribed benefits), provided that the claimant and that partner were a couple both at the time of the overpayment and when the deduction is made.”;

© in paragraph (2)—

(i) after “permitted by paragraph (1)” insert “or (1ZA)”; and

(ii) after “a claimant” insert “or a claimant’s partner”; and

(d) in paragraph (3) for “who has” substitute “or a claimant’s partner, where the claimant has”.
(4) In regulation 105(
17
) (recovery of overpayments from prescribed benefits)—

(a) in paragraph (1) before “For the purposes of section 75(4) of the Administration Act” insert “Subject to paragraph (1B),”;

(b) after paragraph (1A) insert—

“(1B) For the purposes of section 75(4) of the Administration Act, where recovery is sought from the claimant’s partner under regulation 102(1ZA), the benefits prescribed by this regulation are—

(a) income support under Part 7 of the Act;

(b) income-based jobseeker’s allowance;

© state pension credit; and

(d) income-related employment and support allowance.”; and

© for paragraph (2) substitute—

“(2) The Secretary of State shall, if requested to do so by an authority under regulation 102 (method of recovery), recover a recoverable overpayment by deduction from any of the benefits prescribed in paragraph (1) or (in the case of the claimant’s partner) any of the benefits prescribed in paragraph (1B) provided that the Secretary of State is satisfied that—

(a) a recoverable overpayment has been made in consequence of a misrepresentation of or a failure to disclose a material fact (in either case whether fraudulently or otherwise), by a claimant or any other person to whom a payment of housing benefit has been made; and

(b) the person from whom it is sought to recover the overpayment is receiving sufficient amounts of any of the benefits prescribed in paragraph (1) or (1B) (as the case may be) to enable deductions to be made for the recovery of the overpayment.”.

The advice I give in relation to benefits should be viewed as general advice and not specific to your individual claim circumstances. I cannot give specific advice on your claim as I cannot access the claim.

 

If you find the advice useful please click on my scales.

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Can I just ask what 'I received payment from you through your admitted oversight, - not mine' was, you do not say what you think this oversight is.

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I would cut a lot of the text out of the letter, i.e. where he is form, her busy life, his gambling problem, etc. It is not needed and just makes the letter time consuming to read as you have to look for the relevant information.

 

She needs to say at this stage that:

 

- she does not understand why she is being chased for the money nor the statement that she has been unjustly enriched.

- that she took the money in good faith as Mr X told her that he was unemployed and entitled to Benefits and this information was backed up by the communications/payments received for HB at the time

- that there was a period/periods were Mr X was working and informed her of this and for this period/periods his HB payments stopped and he did arrange to pay the rent himself and as he had done this she had no reason to question the times that he had said he was entitled to and in fact was receiving benefits

- that she wants an explanation as to why the overpayment occurred (if she has not already been given a proper explanation) and why they are chasing her and not Mr X

 

It wouldn't hurt to say that he left with rent arrears owing and unpaid bills so rather than being unjustly enriched she is very much out of pocket.

 

As Installspark said state the regulations and that she feels these back up her claim that she should not have to pay the money back and that Mr X should be chased.

 

I think as per ususal when it comes to debt collection involving more than one party they have gone for the person they think is most likely to pay or be in a position to pay rather than who actually is responsible for the outstanding debt.

 

Good luck to your friend.

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I think as per ususal when it comes to debt collection involving more than one party they have gone for the person they think is most likely to pay or be in a position to pay rather than who actually is responsible for the outstanding debt.

 

Good luck to your friend.

 

If the ex tenant of OP's friend is receiving any form of DWP benefit, then any overpayment can be recovered from this directly.

The advice I give in relation to benefits should be viewed as general advice and not specific to your individual claim circumstances. I cannot give specific advice on your claim as I cannot access the claim.

 

If you find the advice useful please click on my scales.

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Hi,

 

You say the council admitted it was paid in error. Do you have this in writing?

 

The letter is far too long. as Aviva has said, stick to the salient points. Your personal issues with your ex lodger mean nothing to the bods at the council.

 

In the letter, quote what installspark has posted. They should know the rules.

 

If the tenant has fraudulently claimed any benefit while working, the council should go after him.

 

You had no reason to know that the money you received was in error.

 

I would suggest that you no longer phone them. Do everything in writing and either hand deliver the letter and get a receipt or send by recorded delivery.

 

If nothing comes of the appeal, a complaint needs to be made. This will be stage one. If that fails, I would suggest that you don't bother going to stage two but go straight to the Chief exec. This has had an immediate effect both times I did this. You can't go to the Ombudsman until you have done this as they will send it straight back.

 

Get everyone involved, MP, MEP even your local councillor.

 

Unfortunately, this could be a long process so patience is a plus.

 

good luck

 

fox

 

p.s Thanks for the plug :)

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hi, thanks very much all of you for your advice, - My friend is in quite a panicky! MUCH APPRECIATED THANKS!

 

We have amended letter as advised, including pasting in Installsparks very usefully HB Regs. - Good to show the other party she knows her onions! Re: "admitted over site," the exact words from Benefit Services letter is:

 

Dated: 2nd June 2009.

 

I have reviewed the application for Housing Benefit from your Tennant Mr **. I must advise you that benefit has been stopped from March 2008 and you should arrange for the full rent to be paid from this date.

 

As a result of this change you have been overpaid the sum of £2,573.21. The reason for the over payment is defective claim and has been calculated as follows:

 

-----------------------------Benefit Paid---------------------------------

 

FROM TO WEEKLY AMOUNT NEW AWARD

 

31 March 2008 01 April 2008 £4*.** £0.00

01 April 2008 01 April 2009 £4*.** £0.00

01 April 2009 18 May 2009 £4*.** £0.00

 

An invoice will be issued for repayment. (End of letter)

 

 

I agree with Aviva: Quote: Originally Posted by Aviva viewpost.gif

 

I think as per usual when it comes to debt collection involving more than one party they have gone for the person they think is most likely to pay or be in a position to pay rather than who actually is responsible for the outstanding debt. - But I would put it more strongly: I am absolutely certain the above is the case!

 

Re: overpayment recoverable from Ben Claimant / tenant if receiving DWP Benefits. We believe the Tennant to likely be on benefits as has little realistic prospect of employment due to disabilities and "issues". - He left a note saying he was going to the Council Day Center / Night shelter. We think it reasonable to assume that they would have got him to reapply for benefits. IMHO I believe he should be on Incap Ben and DLA.

 

Re: If the tenant has fraudulently claimed any benefit while working, the council should go after him. My understanding, and honest opinion is that tennant did not intentionally, fraudulently, or otherwise claim benefit to which he was not entitled. I believe the tenant notified Benefit Services that he had stated work, but the Housing Benefit continued to pay the landlord regardless from 31st March 2008 through to 18th May 2009.

 

We are minded to leave much of the circumstances in, just put it more concisely, (which I am crap at!) as I have once had Judge significantly reduce a Claimants costs because I demonstrated that I had fully informed them of my position from the outset. On another occasion for the same reason, the Judge threw out the entire case and soundly admonished the claimant for ever bringing the case to Court. Further, that we are considering CC ing the letter to MP, MEP, Local Councilor, Local Paper, with cover letter.

 

 

Thanks again! :)

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Sorry to hear about your problems.

 

I am sure with the help of other Caggers you will progress positivley with your case.

 

You have mentioned that you have noticed comments within one of my other threads, the help and information i continue to receive on that thread as been a great help to me in my matter, i will be providing updates etc on that thread when they occur.

 

Hope you get things sorted.

The retailers worst nightmare !

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  • Haha 1

The advice I give in relation to benefits should be viewed as general advice and not specific to your individual claim circumstances. I cannot give specific advice on your claim as I cannot access the claim.

 

If you find the advice useful please click on my scales.

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---

Edited by installspark
Duplicate post

The advice I give in relation to benefits should be viewed as general advice and not specific to your individual claim circumstances. I cannot give specific advice on your claim as I cannot access the claim.

 

If you find the advice useful please click on my scales.

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Over payment of CTB (known as excess benefit) is covered by s82 to s90 of the Council Tax Benefit Regulations 2006

The advice I give in relation to benefits should be viewed as general advice and not specific to your individual claim circumstances. I cannot give specific advice on your claim as I cannot access the claim.

 

If you find the advice useful please click on my scales.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to let you know that using the Regulations posted above we have been successful and they have now admitted an official error and written it off. Whew!

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I'm Sorry I didn't see this yesterday as I have been quite ill over the weekend.

 

Isn't it amazing what happens when the general public stand up to these people.

 

Could you pass on my congratulations to your friend and keep the letter admitting the error.

 

Warms the cockles of my heart :D

 

fox

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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I'm Sorry I didn't see this yesterday as I have been quite ill over the weekend.

 

Isn't it amazing what happens when the general public stand up to these people.

 

Could you pass on my congratulations to your friend and keep the letter admitting the error.

 

Warms the cockles of my heart :D

 

fox

Sorry we had the same problem as the original poster and I was posting to advise that we had been successful withour appeal so hopefully the PO will also have the same result.

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