1st credit/halifax CC - trying to delliver SD - help

[siamshops]

I sent a cca request to 1st credit who dealing with my Halifax credit card debt. 14 days letter I recived a full account summary but not credit agreement or letter explaining where it is.

What should I do next? Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Send them this; http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

[siamshops]

Do Not Worry About The Letter However Cant Read The Cca

 

Is It Just One Page Are There Any Terms.

 

Is It One Sided

 

Yes only one sided, at the top unde where it says visa card application it says credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974.

The rest is in sections

1 Your name and address

2 Your personal details

3 Your employment ( income at the time was £12,500 visa card limit was 9k)

4 Additional cardholder

5 Product details

6 Principal cardholders application and declaration (which is all about credit scoring and credit checking

No terms as far as I can see

[ScarletPimpernel]

I don't think you should worry about what's on the agreement.

 

1st Credit have failed to comply with your s.78(1) request. There is no provision in the Act for the sending of an edited document.

 

This is their standard response to a CCA - they are trying to get you to acknowledge the debt. However, the only reason they could have for failing to comply is if they are unsure of your identity - but if that was the case they shouldn't have sent demands for payment, which would be contrary to the OFT guidance.

 

In these circumstances I'd send them a letter point out that the legislation neither requires you to provide a signature, nor does it permit them to send an edited document, and that as the statutory time limit has expired and they've failed to comply, s.78(6) applies.

[siamshops]

After sending a failure to comply letter regarding my cca request, I received the following attachments from 1st credit. I hope they can be read they arrived reduced in size making it very hard to read.

I hope my scanning of them has worked.

Please could somebody let me know what to do next.

P.S since my orignal cca request I have received 3 letters offering 30% discount if I pay in full in the next 3 months, why would they think I have thousands to give them.

Thanks to everbody for your help.

reply from 1st credit with app form + T+Cs .pdf

[siamshops]

The visa card application form with my signature is dated Jan 2001

[siamshops]

Its for a Halifax credit card which I was paying reduced payments on via a DMP, Halifax then sold the debt on to 1st Credit.

The only form they have sent with signature is a very poor reduced copy of a visa card application form.

as posted in the first pdf from 1st credit

[siamshops]

What would you suggest I do now, they claim that this is the credit agreement which proves that the debt is legitimate, the application form is what they sent me after I sent a formal notice-account in dispute as they failed to respond to my request for the cca.

Thanks for all your help.

[lilly white]

send this

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/582-possible-letter-when-a-questionable-agreementapplication-is-sent

 

Edit to suit

[siamshops]

Received this letter this week from 1st credit.

Are they going to take me to court?

Any advise on what I should do next would be very helpful.

1st credit say app form is enforceable .pdf

[cerberusalert]

Send the muppets this;

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Account no

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated ........, the contents of which are noted

 

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On ......... I requested that ........... supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ........... have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to .............., nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ............... become compliant with my request. As ................ are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until ............. comply with my request from .date........... or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards

Print name do not sign

[siamshops]

Thanks will send that off to them, what are they trying to gain by sending a copy of the visa card application.

[cerberusalert]

As usual they are trying to bluff, if they can't confuse you with science they'll try with bulls**t.

[siamshops]

Just noticed the letter is 29th July 2009, the first line is thanking me for my letter dated 18th August 2009.

Sums them up I guess.

[siamshops]

Latest letter from 1st credit claming that I have omitted to tell them the reason for my dispute.

Where do I stand?

 

any help or advice would be most helpful thanks.

1st credit query why AC is in dispute .pdf

[cerberusalert]

Have they totally lost the plot? The letter in post #2 goes into depth why you dispute the debt.

 

Re-send the letter and add that if they are incapable of understanding it, give it to an adult who will explain it to them & ask for a copy their complaints procedures.

[cerberusalert]

On second thoughts, send them the following. I'ts in plainer English and just maybe the cretin who reads it may be able to understand this time.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements

Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken.

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that I have outlined within the agreement.

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a statutory demand/ court claim I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due.

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

 

Yours,

Print name do not sign.

[siamshops]

Thanks will send that off in the morning,

 

I also recieved the attached on the same day as the last letter,

statement of account

 

clearly they do not have a clue.

statement of AC oct2010 .pdf

[cerberusalert]

New regulations came into being earlier this year where they have to provide yearly statements on a/cs.

[siamshops]

Latest letter from 1st credit which again arrived with a copy of a visa card application and 12 pages claiming to be a credit agreement.

I think I will ignore this and see what happens.

Any help or suggestions would be great.

Once again I thank you in advance.

1st credit ac on hold 14 days .pdf

[siamshops]

Recieved the attached letter from 1st credit this week,

I was hoping they may have gone away!

Any advise or help what to next would be most grateful.

Thanks.

1st credit - threat of legal action + SO mandate .pdf

[cymruambyth]

Hi, if you haven't place the account in dispute and request their complaints procedure.

Report them to TS and FOS

[siamshops]

Hi, thanks for your reply, I have already placed the account in dispute to which they replyed with a letter stating that they conside the documentation they hold on file to be sufficent to prove the debt and that they are willing to put it forward before a judge to decide upon its enforceability.

Edited January 10, 2010 by siamshops

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

 

Copy your MP in on all your dealings with 1st crud and report them to TS and the OFT via consumer direct.

[themagician]

Hi, thanks for your reply, I have already placed the account in dispute to which they replyed with a letter stating that they conside the documentation they hold on file to be sufficent to prove the debt and that they are willing to put it forward before a judge to decide upon its enforceability.

i would cpr them pre-litigation,there is no cost involved,and they would have to supply you with all documents that they are going to rely on in court including a signed agreement.

send recorded and do not sign it.print name only.