Am I legally correct?

[Dorset Diver]

Hello,

 

I recently offered British Gas £64.00 in full and final settlement of an £84.38 bill. There is good solid reasoning behind this. I wrote to them enclosing my cheque and made it clear it was in full and final settlement and that all they had to do to accept my offer was cash the cheque. They did cash it, but they are now chasing me for the £20.38. I believe I made an offer that they accepted and the debt is now paid in full. Any comments??

 

Regards

 

DD

[lickthewallfatboy]

they cashed it when it was marked "full and final"

 

tough on British Gas then,isn't it?

[Bazooka Boo]

There was a good link on here somewhere, which I wrongly thought I had saved, about F&F settlement offers.

But IMHO, if you offer a company a F&F offer to settle a debt, then they need to confirm it first 'before' you send the payment.

However I may be wrong:eek:!

[lickthewallfatboy]

way back when,I read here about a couple of people who had done this,and the general consensus was that if the payee cashed a cheque with this written on it,then they had accepted the offer

 

I think it worked the same way in the early days of bank charge claims-if the bank said they were paying you "x",and your claim was for "y",and you cashed the cheque for the lesser amount they had sent you,then you hadn't a leg to stand on legally

 

I think "clittycards";) were infamous for this

[Pinky69]

Utilities are not governed by the consumer credit legislation - it's a bill for a service, not credit, so has to be paid in full.

[Dorset Diver]

I am getting very confused messages. Help! Anyone with a definitive answer? I'm willing to expand on what has happened.

 

DD

[Pinky69]

We are waiting with baited breath..........

[richyboy]

Although they cashed the cheque by sending you a demand they are making it clear that they did not accept your payment in full and final settlement. The only way a court would accept your position is if there was an unreasonable delay between them cashing the cheque and demanding the balance.

[diddydicky]

I am getting very confused messages. Help! Anyone with a definitive answer? I'm willing to expand on what has happened.

 

DD

 

you cannot impose a "settlement figure " on a creditor he has to have the opportunity to consent

 

you owed the creditor 84 and he came upon assets in your name of 64 and quite rightly seized them (your cheque) to pay towards your indebtedness

 

you still owe them twenty quid

[rameses_qc]

I agree with diddydicky. Doesn't matter what you write on the cheque or anything else. They are NOT obliged to accept a full and final. Pinnels Case STILL applies, in that part payment of a debt will never fulfill the whole.

They are still entitled to £20

[Bazooka Boo]

you cannot impose a "settlement figure " on a creditor he has to have the opportunity to consent

you owed the creditor 84 and he came upon assets in your name of 64 and quite rightly seized them (your cheque) to pay towards your indebtedness

you still owe them twenty quid

 

Thank you, that's at least cleared it up for me aswell, as I did previously think that if you offered a creditor a F&F offer they had to agree to it before any payment is made.

[lickthewallfatboy]

you cannot impose a "settlement figure " on a creditor he has to have the opportunity to consent

 

you owed the creditor 84 and he came upon assets in your name of 64 and quite rightly seized them (your cheque) to pay towards your indebtedness

 

you still owe them twenty quid

 

 

try telling that to citicards claimants from around 06/07 who were sent cheques for partial amounts of charges claims,cashed them,continued their claims and when they got to court,their cases were thrown out......because they had cashed the cheques

 

I remember it very well

[Bazooka Boo]

I have been trying to find some evidence to clarify F&F settlements, and the only thing I keep getting back is that the creditor has to agree to a F&F settlement before you send any payment.

 

REMEMBER

Make sure you keep copies of any letters you send.

 

• It is very important to make sure the creditor accepts your full and final settlement offer in writing. Make sure you keep a copy in case there is a dispute which can happen years later.
  
• Never send a lump sum payment before the offer is accepted.
  
• It is a good idea to get a third party such as a friend or relative to send the money on your behalf. This helps your agreement to be more legally binding if the creditor accepts the money via a third party.
  
• If you are settling a debt that is large or particularly important, you could have a formal agreement drawn up by a solicitor and signed by you and the creditor. This is not normally necessary.
  

ADVICE

Make sure the creditor agrees in writing to change your credit reference file details to show the balance is 'satisfied' and the date. Check this has been done by asking the credit reference agencies for a copy of your credit file.

 

National Debtline Full and Final Settlement Offers

[lickthewallfatboy]

IMHO

 

if you have clearly marked a cheque as "full and final",and they then cash it,then that is accepting it.

[Pinky69]

OK, let's all do it paying our gas bills. We will all write a cheque marked "Full and Final" and pay £20 less than the bill, then tell them because we say it is Full and Final we don't owe them anymore.

[lickthewallfatboy]

I don't pay gas bills at all

[Adam69]

No, you can't do this. Many years ago, before this site was around, I tried this with HFC Bank, I sent them a cheque for about 90% of a loan and told them I was deducting the amount in relation to complaints and that I considered it F&F, and that if they did not agree, they should return the cheque.

 

I moved house and many months later an AOE order arrived at work- they'd been sending letters to an incorrect address, obtained a CCJ which of course I knew nothing of and went for my salary. The AOE and CCJ were set aside on the grounds that they had failed to serve the papers correctly.

 

The judge told me quite bluntly that this was the only reason and that I had no right to impose settlement terms on a creditor.

 

As it was, they didn't go for another CCJ, I think I managed to make them see that their service was shockingly bad, and that the CCJ saga was proof.

 

Sorry- you gotta pay the £20.

 

What's your reason for sending less anyway?

[Pinky69]

That was the point I was making. You must pay in full for utilities and and for credit you cannot impose the terms - they must be negotiated.

[diddydicky]

try telling that to citicards claimants from around 06/07 who were sent cheques for partial amounts of charges claims,cashed them,continued their claims and when they got to court,their cases were thrown out......because they had cashed the cheques

 

I remember it very well

 

don't know the case personally but i dare say those payments were made in respect of a claim from those concerned- quite different from a ulility company to whom one owes a definative amount against genuine invoices rendered

[diddydicky]

I have been trying to find some evidence to clarify F&F settlements, and the only thing I keep getting back is that the creditor has to agree to a F&F settlement before you send any payment.

 

 

 

National Debtline Full and Final Settlement Offers

 

stick with solid advice - don't make any offers of settlements or pay any money in respect of UNTIL you have confirmation of acceptance of the terms from the other side

[Kraken1]

Full and final settlements. What fun.

 

In summary they work for compensation claims and similar, and cashing the cheque is taken as your acceptance of an offer that is made. For eg you sue someone for negligence, they send you a cheque in full and final. If you bank it then that is the claim done. I see many companies do this sort of thing, the fight goes out of people when they have the 'cash' in their hands and they all of a sudden get reluctant to post it back, especially if there is a chance that they will recover less. In any event, I digress...

 

They don't work in settlement of a debt. There is an absence of consideration and the payment is only against an existing contractual obligation.