MBNA/Optima Court action

[MisterV]

Hi to all,

 

Have taken great heart from reading the threads regarding the dreaded MBNA and realise just how important the help and support here is to have any chance of success.

 

I have decided to act and have sent MBNA a CCA request.

 

Like others i will need undoubtedly seek help and guidance and hopefully at some point i can also offer some help and support myself.

Will keep you up to date with developments.

 

MisterV

[moonwhich7]

Hello MisterV

 

Welcome to the family!

 

I am not really in a position myself yet to offer any solid advice. I am a bit of a novice at all this too and rely on all our learned friends on here to guide me.

 

Having said that, I can offer support which is just as valuable when the going gets tough. So keep us all posted with regards to your progress and Good Luck!

 

Moon

[MisterV]

Hi,

 

Have heard nothing from MBNA and the 12 day deadline has passed. Do i have to send them another letter or now let the further 30 day deadline pass. From reading threads i understand they are in default and i can stop paying?

[silverfox1961]

HI mrv

the 30 days no longer applies so they are now in default. Not much you can do. You could send them an account in dispute letter if you wish butthe general opinion is that they know they are in default so why should you tell them.

I'm hoping you'll say you sent the CCA request recorded delivery, checked on the post office website that they got it and printed off a receipt of when it was delivered.

 

fox

[SteveH2508]

Hi,

 

Have heard nothing from MBNA and the 12 day deadline has passed. Do i have to send them another letter or now let the further 30 day deadline pass. From reading threads i understand they are in default and i can stop paying?

 

Sending them well-drafted letters is rather a waste of time - it all goes miles above their heads.

 

The only thing they understand is when you stop paying them.

 

Be aware that their threat-o-gram machine will spit out stupid letters/postcards/pink pigs and they will:

A) trash your credit file

B) Phone you constantly

C) Get other pond-life to chase you for money (Look out for RMA; Debt Clear Recoveries and maybe Restons Solicitors)

 

At the moment the best thing you can do is NOTHING - if and when they send something purporting to be an enforceable Credit Agreement post it up for us to pick apart. Once you know whether they have an enforceable agreement you may then be in the driving seat.

 

If they have sent nothing within the 12+2 days then the agreement is unenforceable until they comply.

 

DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE - EVER!

[MisterV]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes Fox - sent the letter special delivery and have printed off the proof of delivery.

[CARLSTARS]

Hi Steve

 

At the foot of an earlier post you wrote....

Nationwide

- Prelim sent 27/02/07

- MCOL filed 01/04/07

SETTLED IN FULL!!

Woolwich

- Prelim sent 30/04/07

- Offered 90% - 08/06/07 accepted

MBNA

- Prelim sent 27/02/07

- CCA request sent 13/03/07

- CCA reply (illegible + no T&Cs)

- DCA sent packing

- Restons now trying

Citicard

- Prelim sent 27/02/07

- CCA request sent 05/04/07

- VERY interesting reply 23/04/07!

No contract & not enforcing!

- passed to DCA - f**ked off at the high port!

Egg

- Prelim sent 29/02/08

- 3 letters - full offer 22/03/08 - accepted

SETTLED IN FULL!!

(All green, rep, scaley, clicky thingies gratefully received!)

 

 

Could you expand on "settled in Full" or "offerd 90%"

 

I m slightly confused as there is some talk of people not only getting their debt written off but in some cases they have been refunded monies paid.

Many Thanks

 

Carl

[SteveH2508]

Nationwide - Bank charges reclaim

Woolwich - ditto

Egg - credit charges refund - they closed my account (1 of 160,000) so I hit 'em where it hurts!

MBNA and Citicard - both defaulted on S78 requests so they do not get anything at present (they both bought my account from elsewhere but didn't get the paperwork (silly them!)

[MisterV]

Hi,

 

After MBNA missing their 12 + 2 day deadline, i received a letter on 6th December. Please could i get some advice.

 

Seems to me like an application form and set of terms and conditions.

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0001-1.jpg

 

Rear of above:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0002-1.jpg

 

 

 

Next four links are the copy of the terms and conditions:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0003-1.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0004-1.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0005-1.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0006-1.jpg

 

Thanks

 

MisterV

 

Hello,

 

I have 2 MBNA accounts (yes i know how stupid can one person be) and am seeking CCA for both. They are in separate threads and i am grateful for all your help so far.

 

Sent a letter requesting a copy of the CCA. Received the following within the 12 day deadline. Could anyone help please and tell me where i stand with the following.

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0001-2.jpg

 

Rear of above:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0002-2.jpg

 

Terms and conditions:

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0003-2.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0004-2.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0005-2.jpg

 

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/martpammy/scan0006-2.jpg

 

Thanks everyone.

[fedup74]

Hi MisterV- was this credit card taken out in 1999?

If so, they have sent you the wrong terms and conditions

- Default charges are £12

- they were nowhere near this in 1999.

 

Also on your first link that you have signed (the application) are the prescribed terms on the back of your application?

 

Can you remember how you applied for the card

- was it through a paper/ mag and could these prescribed terms have been on the back of it?

 

I ask cos my application they sent me would have had the weather report from 1999 on the back:eek: and no way did it have the prescribed terms on.

 

If they can be linked as coming from the same document then this could be enforceable.

 

If they are not then IMHO it is unenforceable as the prescribed terms are not within the signatory document

- It doesn't say on the application 'terms and conditions' or 'related financial information' overleaf does it?

[MisterV]

Hi fedup

 

Thanks for the fast response, you are right the card was taken out in 1999.

I cant remember exactly how i made the application. Is this critical in whether i have acase or not?

 

The second link shows what was on the back of the signed application, which says Financial and Related conditions. Does that make sense?

 

Appreciate your help/

[Fred Bassett]

Well it seems to have all of the prescribed terms and the front and back of the document appear to be from the same time - a rarity for MBNA. The Ts & Cs are the current ones though, so I'm not sure how much difference this makes.

 

You've left a number of details on the first page - account numbers etc. - might be best to cover these up.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[MisterV]

Thanks Fred

 

Can anyone clarify what it means when the 'current' terms and conditions are sent with the original application/agreement ?

 

Presumably they dont have the original.

 

Thanks

[vexlitigant]

Hi

 

As per Fred B's comments, I bet the T's & C's are their current ones and do not relate to your 'agreement'.

 

Of course you know by now that you are, in the first two scanned copies that you have attached, looking at an application form. An application is just that, and doesn't mean that there is an agreement.

 

So.... two quick q's for you:

 

 

1. When were the card(s) taken out?
   
2. Are there any dates on the header or footer of the T's & C's that may have been chopped off when you scanned?
   

The date in which you took this out will tell us a lot. The older the date, the more unlikely (in my opinion) they have anything to hold you to.

 

Thanks, Vex

[Fred Bassett]

You have to be a bit careful because an application form can still be enforceable if it contains the prescribed terms. This one looks as if it does, but there's often some glaring error with MBNA stuff, especially from that far back, so hang on in there because something might crop up.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[MisterV]

Hi,

 

The application form was filled out in October 1997.

 

There is no date, as such on the terms and conditions,

however if you look there is a number printed on the bottom left LA-10-97-161-N, does this represents a date?,

in this case - October 1997.

The date of my application is October 1997.

Surely this isnt a coincidence?

 

What can be classed as a glaring error Fred?

 

Thing is ive come this far and as with a lot of people at some point you have to make a calculated decision as to whether you have a case for a CCA not being enforceable and sit tight and wait, or, you have to make a payment and assume the CCA is correct and in their favour.

 

Your comments as ever much appreciated.

[SB100]

My thread here may be of use

[MisterV]

Advice please,

 

MBNA missed the 12 + 2 day deadline but i have since received the documents that are posted above. I am still unsure what my next step is. Do I assume that because they missed the deadline they are at fault and the account is in dispute or do i reply to the information they have sent?

 

Im unclear as to whether the application form and terms and conditions are classed as a CCA.

 

Thanks

[tonypppr]

Hi there.

May i ask whether you took out ppi with norwich union back in 1999 which was their underwriters at this time as i really need a copy of this as they have changed to st andrews ppi since then and they are trying to get out of paying ppi on my illness.

would be so gratefull if you have.

many thanks tony pepper

[email protected]

[fedup74]

Hi MisterV it doesn't matter that they went past the deadline- even if they produced an agreement 2 years down the line they could start collecting on it. It all comes down to whether it is enforceable. IMO this looks dodgy- the signatory page is wonky and slanted to the side yet the financial related conditions are perfectly straight. It's like one has been photocopied onto the back of the other. An agreement would be enforceable if these two were part of the same document but IMO they aren't. See what other more knowledgable people have to say about this though, please don't take my word for it being pasted onto the application.

[MisterV]

Thanks for that SB, makes interesting reading.

 

So i should go for a SAR request?

 

Do i keep paying them? They sent the above information within the 12+2 day deadline but im not sure what to do next? Am i right in thinking i can only stop paying if the information falls outside of this deadline?

 

Thanks

[SB100]

I stopped paying when they didn't reply to the CCA - but would have stopped when they sent what I consider to be an application form that isn't enforceable.

 

The choice is yours. As soon as you stop paying they'll get real persistent with phone calls and letters- and you'll get late payment markers on your credit file. I'm led to believe they'll issue a default after three missed payments, which will damage your credit file pretty badly.

 

The argument goes that if they don't have an enforceable CCA then they aren't entitled to default you; although they take little notice of this and default you anyway, you should be on pretty strong ground to have it removed.

 

Having said that, what I write is my understanding of how these things happen. There are a lot of people on here with much more experience than me, so read lots and make up your own mind. I'm hoping I'm right as this is the course of action I'm following.

 

I sincerely hope this helps you:)

 

Sorry, forgot to add- I'd send an SAR if you're stopping payments and going to war with them, just to see what they've got.

[MisterV]

Thanks SB,

 

I think i have reached a real turning point here whether to challenge the legality of the CCA or not. After careful consideration i have decided to write to MBNA and question my application form but am a bit unsure which road to go down.

 

I read on your thread that you sent a letter questioning the legality of your CCA/Application form. You are a couple of steps ahead of me but i think we are following similar paths. So my question is :

 

Send a letter questioning the CCA? or

Request a SAR?

 

I think it is fairly critical i get the next move right.

 

Your comments appreciated.

[MisterV]

Anybody else got any advice on enforceability or next step?

 

Send a SAR Request?

 

Any help appreciated.

[Fangio of the nineties]

HI,

 

looks similar to mine, which i'm disputing on the basis that the copy they've sent is illegible..

 

but, could be wrong and someone please correct me if i'm am..

 

Front seems just a copy of an application form, the title is lacking the words "credit card agreement" so thats not strictly correct.

 

There's nothing connecting the front and the rear...no notice that terms are overleaf etc. so you can't be sure that they were ever overleaf..

 

the act requires that the prescribed terms are within the "4 corners of the agreement" ... in my opinion the fact that they are not between the title and the sig box the agreement fails in this respect.

 

If the agreement was filled in by an agent (as mine was) and the prescribed terms were on the back there is nothing to draw your attention to them on the front and it is therefore entirelky possible that you may never have been aware of them...

 

Also the code numbers on the bottom of the page are different... by no means conclusive but does not give any comfort that it was ever part of the same doc..

 

otherwise .. looks like it's been properley excercised, and the prescribed terms look to me to be sufficient,,. so if they've got the original.. and this looks to be a good copy, and they can convince a judge that the prescribed terms were part of the document and thast the error in the title does not matter... then you could be on a sticky wicket..

 

IMHO the other t&c's don't matter... so long as they can provide a copy of what was in force ast the time they're ok..

 

 

FOTN