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I received this for waiting on a double yellow line.

 

It give a time and date of the alleged contravention but does not state the times during which it occurred or times during which it was observed. Can I appeal on this basis?

 

Can I appeal on the grounds that there is no good reason for there to be a camera at the spot rather than a parking attendant?

 

Can I challenge the need for yellow lines in the street?

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It give a time and date of the alleged contravention but does not state the times during which it occurred

 

Isn't time of contravention when it occured?

 

No is the answer to the other two questions, you can complain about both but its not a reason to cancel your PCN.

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Time of contravention : "when it occurred".

If my car was at the roadside for one second would this still be a contravention?

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Time of contravention : "when it occurred".

If my car was at the roadside for one second would this still be a contravention?

 

Yes there is no period of time required, you were seen parked at the time on the ticket in a place where you are prohibited from parking. It would not matter if it was 1 minute or one day that you were there for, at the time of the PCN you were in contravention. It is very unlikely that a PCN could be issued in one second just reading the VRM would take that long so the question is meaningless.

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"the question is meaningless"

I don't agree. "Waiting" must refer to a significant period of time and strongly implies a purpose and anticipation-therefore a reason for "waiting".

To have your car at the roadside for one or two seconds cannot meaningfully be described as "waiting" because the period of time that elapses is too short for an anticipated event to occur.

 

For example, to say : "I waited in the queue for 1.5 seconds" doesn't make sense because the concept of "waiting" involves a more significant length of time with both subjective and objective perception of time passing.

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You can always request to view the video footage, which will show exactly how many seconds you were parked.

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"the question is meaningless"

I don't agree. "Waiting" must refer to a significant period of time and strongly implies a purpose and anticipation-therefore a reason for "waiting".

To have your car at the roadside for one or two seconds cannot meaningfully be described as "waiting" because the period of time that elapses is too short for an anticipated event to occur.

 

For example, to say : "I waited in the queue for 1.5 seconds" doesn't make sense because the concept of "waiting" involves a more significant length of time with both subjective and objective perception of time passing.

 

Alternatively, if you have not been a repeat offender and you were there for just a very short period of time you could always try writing to the council and asking if they would use their discretion in this instance. They are not bound to do this in anyway but what have you got to lose - 39p for a first class stamp. The worst they can do is say no.

 

TFT


09/07/09 :)Business Studies BA(Hons) 2:1:)

 

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Alternatively, if you have not been a repeat offender and you were there for just a very short period of time you could always try writing to the council and asking if they would use their discretion in this instance. They are not bound to do this in anyway but what have you got to lose - 39p for a first class stamp. The worst they can do is say no.

 

TFT

 

geez that's extortion!

 

Is a first class stamp really 39p now??

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"the question is meaningless"

I don't agree. "Waiting" must refer to a significant period of time and strongly implies a purpose and anticipation-therefore a reason for "waiting".

To have your car at the roadside for one or two seconds cannot meaningfully be described as "waiting" because the period of time that elapses is too short for an anticipated event to occur.

 

For example, to say : "I waited in the queue for 1.5 seconds" doesn't make sense because the concept of "waiting" involves a more significant length of time with both subjective and objective perception of time passing.

 

It does not refer to any significant period of time if you are not driving you are waiting. If you feel you did not wait but at the time of the PCN you were driving or carrying out an exempt activity whilst waiting then feel free to appeal.

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I appealed by email, saving the cost of a first class stamp.

 

I received a letter this morning stating : "after checking the CCTV footage we have decided to cancel the penalty charge notice".

 

In my appeal I stated that it was my first alleged parking contravention and that the period of time that my car was stationary was very short.

 

Perhaps one day someone will make a legal challenge to an alleged parking contravention based on an authority's unreasonable interpretation of the word "waiting".

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I appealed by email, saving the cost of a first class stamp.

 

I received a letter this morning stating : "after checking the CCTV footage we have decided to cancel the penalty charge notice".

 

In my appeal I stated that it was my first alleged parking contravention and that the period of time that my car was stationary was very short.

 

Perhaps one day someone will make a legal challenge to an alleged parking contravention based on an authority's unreasonable interpretation of the word "waiting".

 

There has already been one and the verdict was ...

 

http://keycases.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/docs/schwarz-v-camden.pdf

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I don't think this covers my point : in this case his car was parked for several days.

My argument is that if a vehicle is stationary on a double yellow line for only one or two minutes it cannot be reasonable defined as "waiting".

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My argument is that if a vehicle is stationary on a double yellow line for only one or two minutes it cannot be reasonable defined as "waiting".

I would have thought that the last pargraph on page 2 counters your arguement in that the Act consisitently uses 'wait' and 'waiting' (never refers to parking or staitonary) and that waiting and parking are synonymous

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I don't think this covers my point : in this case his car was parked for several days.

My argument is that if a vehicle is stationary on a double yellow line for only one or two minutes it cannot be reasonable defined as "waiting".

 

What is it doing then?

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"What is it doing then?"

 

It may not be parking/waiting. It may have temporarily paused at the roadside for a few seconds while the driver attends to such matters as a speck of dust in his eye, a fly or wasp causing distraction, the need to adjust uncomfortable underwear, a piece of paper that has stuck to the windscreen. a suspected nail in a tyre, a noise that might indicate a mechanica problem, etc.

Any of the above examples could relate to road safety.

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or just reading the signs - for which are supposed to have sufficient time.

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"What is it doing then?"

 

It may not be parking/waiting. It may have temporarily paused at the roadside for a few seconds while the driver attends to such matters as a speck of dust in his eye, a fly or wasp causing distraction, the need to adjust uncomfortable underwear, a piece of paper that has stuck to the windscreen. a suspected nail in a tyre, a noise that might indicate a mechanica problem, etc.

Any of the above examples could relate to road safety.

 

But you are still waiting!!!

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