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echowitch

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Not sure where this should go so hoping this forum is ok.

 

I recently ordered a load of jerseys for my paintball team. They were printed quickly enough but there was a bit of a balls up on the delivery which ended up with them turning up the Friday before we were to wear them on the Sunday. (Meaning I had no time to send them back to be corrected)

 

However the dark gold front and back sections (a substantial part of the jersey colour scheme and integral to the overall design) were not dark gold but a kind of lime green.

 

Any idea where we stand ?? There were 7 jerseys printed and 3 of us had to wear them on the Sunday or we couldn't take part in the tournament. (They've since been washed thoroughly and still look brand new after washing.)

 

I've spoke with the company and gotten some really wishy washy excuses that some minor colour change is to be expected (this is not minor, this is a massive colour change,) and was also told that they looked correct on the printing machine. I've told them to check with the Designer who finalised the design and has the approved (dark gold) designs.

 

Can I demand replacements ? A partial or full refund ?


__________________

Capital One - Took them to court and they settled for the full £998

Aqua - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £424

Barclaycard - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £636

RBS/Universa - 1st letter sent, settled for £132

Virgin Media - 1st Judge great....second Judge couldn't even be bothered to read the case details

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A full refund.

Send them all back - bar one which you should keep for evidence. Make it clear to them that you have retained one for this purpose and that it will be returned on settlement or after the court case.

Send them back special delivery and add the cost of this to the claim.

 

Tell them in a letter that if you do not have your full refund in 7 days that youwill sue.

Then do it.


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I asked them to send me the files they used so that I could see for myself that they were using the correct colours/schemes. Today I sent them an email chasing, telling them I had still not received the promised DVD, and that I was dissatisfied that I was having to continually chase them for information which was promised over the telephone. I told them that if I did not receive some form of credible explanation to these mistakes and a viable suggestion as to how to proceed, then I will have no other choice but to exercise my Consumer Rights by returning all of the incorrect jerseys and demanding a full refund.

 

The below is the response I got. (I should note that I had spent 30 minutes prior to sending the email trying to ring them but got no answer.)

 

Our design studio have already explained we do not release DVDs or any other form of files, the colour printed was as close as possible to the colours supplied by Justin, I am very sorry if you are dissatisfied with the Rhino service but my email track shows we are responding to your questions, as I have done today.

To clarify there has been no mistake, the job was designed, proofed and delivered within an agreed timeframe, if you were unhappy with the colours my suggestion would have been to return the shirts the next day, certainly not play in them as your photos show, then complain about the colours!!

 

This is the MD responding above. He fails to acknowledge what I was dissatisfied with. Also I was never told that their design studio didn't send out files. In fact I was specifically promised that I would be sent the files on a DVD (as they are too large to email).

 

Yes they printed them within the timeframe, however they clearly didn't proof check them as they would have noticed they were practically limegreen instead of the dark gold in the design. I did point out the mistake the day I received them. I was nice however, and pointed out the mistake but said that the quality was great. I did note that we had to play wearing 3 of the 7 jerseys because they had delivered them late, so whilst his final comment might be a partially fair one its because they screwed up and left us no time to remedy the issue. And after spending over £300 for these jerseys Im a bit annoyed to say the least. Especially as they seem to be rather reticent to accept responsibility.

 

Any suggestions ??

 

I won't post the pics of the approved design and the finished article but if anyone wants to see them drop me a PM and I'll send you links.


__________________

Capital One - Took them to court and they settled for the full £998

Aqua - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £424

Barclaycard - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £636

RBS/Universa - 1st letter sent, settled for £132

Virgin Media - 1st Judge great....second Judge couldn't even be bothered to read the case details

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Anyone know ?


__________________

Capital One - Took them to court and they settled for the full £998

Aqua - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £424

Barclaycard - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £636

RBS/Universa - 1st letter sent, settled for £132

Virgin Media - 1st Judge great....second Judge couldn't even be bothered to read the case details

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Firstly, colour is subjective, and unless you provided a specific sample or Pantone reference they can reasonably state that precise colours cannot be guaranteed - which is why the Pantone reference is so important when issues ike these arise.

 

Next, because the items were in fact worn (then washed) they are no longer new, and indeed the colour may well have changed again. f they stuck their heels in and said you were actually rejecting the goods for reasons of colour AFTER wearing them, you would in all probability lose in court.

 

The issues asurrounding why they were late and didn;t give you a chance to check and approve but you've already admitted to them that they are now used - even though not what you wanted - and they could claim your have accepted them and only now are complaining.

 

Unless they offer some form of goodwill accommodation your only recourse would be to the Small Claims Court, and for the reasons I outlined earlier, I do not see a win being assured.

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Pantone reference ? Sorry whats that ?

 

Well looks like we are stuck with them. Definitely won't be using Rhinosports again, and from what I've heard since our problems, no one else in the UK Paintball community will either as every single person I've spoken to has had problems with them. Wish I'd known about this before hand.


__________________

Capital One - Took them to court and they settled for the full £998

Aqua - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £424

Barclaycard - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £636

RBS/Universa - 1st letter sent, settled for £132

Virgin Media - 1st Judge great....second Judge couldn't even be bothered to read the case details

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Pantone - and internationally recognised reference system for colours. By providing the supplier with required colours and their Pantone reference code, errors like these are completely avoided, as inks and dyes can all be mixed to achieve a particular Pantone colour. It is the lack of this and the non-specific colour requirement or other sample leaves you disadvantaged.

 

PANTONE Universe - PANTONE Universe

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Or RAL or BS colours, however most people would know that gold is not green!

Take them to court, you will get a refund on the unused ones anyway; submit all correspondance to the court.

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I think the best course of action would be to rely on part 5a of SoGA. Acceptance of goods is not relevant. The fact that they have been worn is also irrelevant. It will be up to the seller to prove that the goods conformed to the contract.


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And then WASHED...? C'mon Gyz.... if you were a shopkeeper wou wouldn't stand for that!

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I responded to the MD with the below email (see his email to me further down.) Tbh I think I've been pretty reasonable in just expecting basic Customer Service. I haven't demanded a refund, or replacements, just asked for an explanation.

 

Tony,

 

firstly I was never told that the design studio do not release files. In fact when I emailed the Design Studio I never received a response at all so I rang and spoke to Chris who promised me that the files would be put on to a DVD and mailed to me so that I could check and ensure that you had the right colours at your end. As Cheryl and I had already experienced one colour problem I wanted to see the files used to print the jerseys to see if this is what had happened again to try and get an explanation as to why Dark Gold had come out as practically Lime Green. Which I as a customer consider to be a mistake. Whilst I can accept that there might be some difference between proof colours and final printed colours, Dark Gold and Lime Green are pretty far apart on the colour charts so its not a minor thing, it is an issue.

 

My dissatisfaction stems from the fact that everytime I ring and ask for something its never done, which results in me having to ring again. The courier issue was a problem but I let it slide. But it left us in a position that we couldn't return the jerseys and get them corrected in time for our tournament. Which is why 3 of the 7 jerseys were worn. However the other 4 are still untouched in their bags.

 

The colours being different is a pretty major mistake in my book but due to the overall quality of the product I complimented you on them but pointed out the error so that you could investigate what went wrong and find the source of the issue and correct it so that it is not an issue in future. But what I am getting in return is you stating it is not a mistake and not seeming to care about finding the problem. The very least I expected was a "whoops sorry for the cockup, we'll find out what went wrong and get back to you within 24 hours to let you know and fix the issue for the future." As this email track shows you said you would investigate to see if the equipment was at fault last monday but you have not gotten back to me on that. I also asked you to check with Cheryl so she could show you how the colours differ but I've heard nothing back about that either.

 

Under UK Consumer Law it is my right to return the goods if they are faulty or they do not meet the requirements laid out for them, which I consider them to be as such as they do not match the proofs that I was sent, BUT I have not. What I have wanted since the start of this is to find out where the mistake happened and work to fix it. What I need to know from you is are you going to investigate this issue and determine the cause of the problem and let me know what it is and that it has been fixed, or are you not going to care ??

 

Below is a link to a photo of one of the jerseys in its packing. The other is an early design that shows the main colour (leaves out all the sponsor logo's, team emblem, etc.)

 

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8858/blissy.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3443/jerseytemplatesp4cnologu.jpg


__________________

Capital One - Took them to court and they settled for the full £998

Aqua - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £424

Barclaycard - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £636

RBS/Universa - 1st letter sent, settled for £132

Virgin Media - 1st Judge great....second Judge couldn't even be bothered to read the case details

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I've had problems with the same compnay - we buy our roller hockey shirts from them, our first order of some 25 shirts all came with the an additional team name on them, they collected them, sorted out the name and re-sent them to us, but then had the wrong style of collar on them (they had right collar style 1st time), then next couple of orders were all correct, but the last 6 I ordered have just been sent back as the collar colour was wrong (now bear in mind we have around 30+ shirts up to now from them) but due to the problem with the first shirts having the extra name every order since I send a photo of the shirts, yet they still manage to get it wrong, however all said the shirts will be sorted and postsed back to me and they'll refund the postage of the wrong shirts back to them - just adds a couple of weeks to the turnaround. BTW I had proofs of the shirts sent via e-mail as a .pdf file so they can send files via e-mail

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Another person having problems with Rhino :) At our tournament Sunday before last I had several teams telling me they had had problems. One friend even told me he is still chasing them for stuff from a year ago.

 

I asked for a DVD as the files are way too large to email. Its the vector graphic file which they use for the actual printing. Huge great file something like 20-100MB in size.

 

Oh and still no response from them yet. I get the nasty feeling that Im going to receive a wall of silence or just straight bull telling me that there is no mistake.

 

Oh and the first pic doesn't really show how green they are (as its taken in a dimly lit room.....was orginally taken to show the team how they looked.)

 

The linked pic below shows how they look in daylight. Almost the same colour as the nearest marker (which is bright green btw)

 

IMG_57809_FB.JPG :: Super 5ives 1st Event - 14/06/2009


__________________

Capital One - Took them to court and they settled for the full £998

Aqua - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £424

Barclaycard - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £636

RBS/Universa - 1st letter sent, settled for £132

Virgin Media - 1st Judge great....second Judge couldn't even be bothered to read the case details

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And then WASHED...? C'mon Gyz.... if you were a shopkeeper wou wouldn't stand for that!

 

I may not, but the law is on the consumer's side, and it is the law that I stand by. I agree that washing makes it more difficult to prove a case, but imagine this was, for example, poor quality and the things fell apart, rather than a colour mismatch. There would be no issue.


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I agree that washing makes it more difficult to prove a case, but imagine this was, for example, poor quality and the things fell apart, rather than a colour mismatch. There would be no issue.

 

Agreed, but that is a different argument! :) Years ago I was in a HiFi shop where someone was returning a pair of headphones because 'it only worked in one ear'. The assistant, who took the query loked at the receipt but did not open the box. He arranged for the refund to be processed and the consumer went out happy. A short time after the dept manager opened the box and discover the 'consumer' had chopped OFF the factory fitted plug and sellotaped in its place was a 3.5mm jack - which was the reason the headphones didn't work.

 

I don't view the OP's problem any differnetly. The goods were incorrect at the time of supply, therefore they should not have been accepted, never mind worn, washed and returned with a complaint!

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Therein lies the discrepancy with DSRs and part 5a. It's a rather incompatible piece of legislation with previous provisions.

 

With the example given, I would certainly, being the seller, told him to bugger off. But part 5A does not consider whether an item has been worn or used - only whether it conforms to the contract. It avoids the acceptance required traditionally. And because of that, the DSRs allow for return.

 

I would say, where this a lessaiz fair (:D Bookie!) economy, that I would agree with you, Buz, and would also do so before the 2003 amendments to SoGA. But we ain't in one.

 

Methinks we will disagree, and so I would say the OP should have a word with TS to see what they say. Would be interesting.

 

And lets see how many grammatical and syntax errors Bookie will pull up with those sentences now I have got two French words in properly!


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4th day now and still no response. I guess their answer to my question of "are you going to investigate this?" is a resounding no !!!


__________________

Capital One - Took them to court and they settled for the full £998

Aqua - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £424

Barclaycard - Threatened legal action, they refunded the whole £636

RBS/Universa - 1st letter sent, settled for £132

Virgin Media - 1st Judge great....second Judge couldn't even be bothered to read the case details

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