GE Debenhams store card sold to CL finance

[pompeyfaith]

Yes indeed beachy the power of the internet, the financial organisations biggest enemy .

 

Well Done

 

PF

[beachcomber60]

reference the above posting, I've just edited it as I left a bit out regarding telesales staff. Think this could apply to TINK's battle with them.

, and in some instances telephone customers were provided with inaccurate or misleading information about the insurance.

 

I have found a bit more about GE and their failings regarding PPI but cant find the link so will have to get the pick axe out & go digging again ( I know - should have saved it to favourites :grin: )

 

Beachy

[beachcomber60]

Morning all,

 

Letter from Santander today stating that they will not budge regarding refusal of any form of refund of ppi, through the FSA fine at them and the reply on that subject was the FSA fine was because of ppi mis selling AFTER becoming regulated, as my account was opened before they became regulated they feel they dont have to answer to anyone.

 

They also state that this is their final response as it is now deadlocked.

 

Will post up the letter if preferred, with what they have written I am starting to wonder if I have them against the ropes!

 

I would assume the only way now is a LBA?

 

Beachy

[charley24]

Beachy I am in the same position, 5 storecards and the same response as you to all 5, they were taken out in 03 and they quote the fact not regulated til 05............has anyone won this battle with them ? Unsure as to whether to press ahead ?

[pompeyfaith]

Ill be back on this one shortly just going to fsa site to have a read of there findings.

 

PF

[pompeyfaith]

Right this is the full report:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gecb.pdf

 

Looking at it i believe we need to find out if PPI would come under the umbrella of general insurance.

 

The firm has been regulated by the FSA since December 2001 and previously by the Bank of England. General insurance policies became regulated by the FSA on 14 January 2005.

 

Because it says above they where regulated by the FSA since December 2001 but general insurance was not regulated until 14th January 2005.

 

It does also say before this they where regulated by the Bank of England not sure if you will get anywhere with them though.

 

So we need to find out if PPI comes under General Insurance.

 

Also your only other option is the courts you can limit your costs if the claim is below £5000 as this will go via the small claims court which is an easier process.

 

If it is considerably above £5000 you will need a solicitor.

 

Hope this helps.

 

PF

[beachcomber60]

Letter as received,

 

Dear Beachy,

 

I write in response to your letter ** July.

 

Having reviewed your recent letter and all previous correspondence, it is my understanding that your concerns are in relation to the sale of Account Cover.

 

I appreciate your comments surrounding the completion of the application, however, I would respectfully point out that, you did sign the application and this should only be signed if all the information is correct and that you understand all aspects of the Credit Application. If at any point you were unsure of what the full agreement entailed this documentation should not have been signed. Please be advised that a copy of your signed Credit Agreement was enclosed within our previous letter (unreadable microfiche - SAR revealed they no longer have the original).

 

You have explained that you have no recollection of being given any explanation in relation to the insurance ** December 1989. At the point of sale the sales assistants routinely discuss the key features and significant exclusions of the policy. However, I am sure you can appreciate it is no possible to discuss every eventuality and therefore the decision whether to proceed or not is ultimately down to the individual customer. I must also advise that at the time of the insurance sale in 1989, I can confirm there was no requirement for financial training to sell this insurance. However, all of our staff were thrained to give the features and benefits of the product, in addition, I would advise that if you were unsure of any information that was shown on your first account statement, we would expect that you contact us at this point of time, in order for us to clarify matters. Since you did not contact us to query the insurance premium charged, the relevent insurance premiums charged monthly.

 

Having noted your comments regarding your employment status, I would advise that we have always given our customers the details of the insurance and let them make an educated decision if the policy is suitable. This information was clearly detailed in your policy and is inline with standard industry practice. I appreciate that you advise you have not received the policy documents issued , however, please be assured that these were sent in good faith.

 

I can only apologise that all information regarding the insurance was not provided within your Data SAR. Please be assured that this matter has been fedback to the department concerned.

 

With regard to our comments surrounding GE Money (now Santander Cards) being fined by the FSA, I would advise that the FSA fine, and the associated media coverage, relates to policies purchased after 14 January 2005 when FSA's ICOB regulations came into force. As set out above, I note that your policy was set up Dec 1989, as this was prior to January 2005 the FSA's decision is not relevent, but all complaints alleging that insurance may have been mis sold are taken seriously.

 

in light of the above and all comments in our previous letter, I do feel that we have fully addressed all the issues you have raised. Therefore our decision remains the same and we are unable to refund any of the premiums charged to the above account.

 

If you remain dissatisfied with our response, you should note that we have reached a stage of deadlock as our internal complaints procedures have been exhausted.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Didnt mention anything about the breaches they made in the FLA Code of Practice for which they were members at the time !

Looks like its a court claim then - anyone succeeded in taking them to court over ppi and won or got them to back down - my claim is for £9,500.

Beachy

[pompeyfaith]

I appreciate your comments surrounding the completion of the application, however, I would respectfully point out that, you did sign the application and this should only be signed if all the information is correct and that you understand all aspects of the Credit Application. If at any point you were unsure of what the full agreement entailed this documentation should not have been signed. Please be advised that a copy of your signed Credit Agreement was enclosed within our previous letter (unreadable microfiche - Subject Access Request revealed they no longer have the original).

 

Well thats a load of bull as they have a duty to ensure the policy is needed.

 

You have explained that you have no recollection of being given any explanation in relation to the insurance ** December 1989. At the point of sale the sales assistants routinely discuss the key features and significant exclusions of the policy. However, I am sure you can appreciate it is no possible to discuss every eventuality and therefore the decision whether to proceed or not is ultimately down to the individual customer.

 

Nope it is down to them to insure that sfaff are properly trained even if they are not employed by them

 

I must also advise that at the time of the insurance sale in 1989, I can confirm there was no requirement for financial training to sell this insurance.

 

Even so you could of gone over and above those requirements to insure that everyone selling was trained it is a poor firm indeed that just goes by requirements and is one of the reasons this country is in the state it is.

 

I appreciate that you advise you have not received the policy documents issued , however, please be assured that these were sent in good faith.

 

Well thats for you to prove then because i know i was not sent them

 

Well basicly what a bull**** fob off letter

 

PF

[pompeyfaith]

Have you taken this up with the FLA ?

 

PF

[beachcomber60]

Have you taken this up with the FLA ?

 

PF

 

No, have read that they are a waste of time, even though GE have breached the FLA Code of Practice in force for that period of agreements(by what I've read and the way it was sold to me)

 

Thanks for all the info from the FSA site, lots of homework now although if it can be proved that they were regulated one way or another 2001 they will then fire back that I took it in '**.

 

What bugs me is that deep down I know I dont stand a chance of getting the £*k its their unwillingness to start to negotiate a settlement.

Edited August 10, 2009 by beachcomber60

[pompeyfaith]

Rather than a claims management company have you thought about a good no win no fee solicitor.

 

Have you sort advice from community legal advice

 

Community Legal Advice - free legal advice for residents of England and Wales, paid for by legal aid

 

PF

[pompeyfaith]

Would it be worth throwing a solicitors letter at them to see if they will enter negotiation.

 

PF

[TINK660]

Dont give up beachy, I too am at a stalemate with them, I have just sent them the letter informing them that if they cannot supply a credit agreement (which they have been unable to do up till now) then the debt is unenforceable. I owe approx £1700, which has been passed to Link for collection and they now have a charging order. I am currently paying link a small sum each month. I am a bit uncertain about stopping payment due to the charging order, but if they cannot supply an agreement I expect them to take the debt back from Link and I want the charging order taken off but dont really know how to go about it. I will keep you posted of any replies I get from GE regarding this. We need to keep at them to let them know that we will not go away!

 

Tink

[beachcomber60]

Dont give up beachy, I too am at a stalemate with them, I have just sent them the letter informing them that if they cannot supply a credit agreement (which they have been unable to do up till now) then the debt is unenforceable. I owe approx £1700, which has been passed to Link for collection and they now have a charging order. I am currently paying link a small sum each month. I am a bit uncertain about stopping payment due to the charging order, but if they cannot supply an agreement I expect them to take the debt back from Link and I want the charging order taken off but dont really know how to go about it. I will keep you posted of any replies I get from GE regarding this. We need to keep at them to let them know that we will not go away!

 

Tink

 

Morning Tink,

 

Thanks for your support, no way am I intending to give up.

 

Yours seem a little more complicated then mine, CL own the debt (alledgedly - no DN & no NoA) cca'd them but got no acknowledgement so reminder sent but still no acknowledgement - so payments stopped, GE have confirmed (three times) in their correspondence that my original agreement no longer exists, they have sent a microfiche copy but that is totally unreadable.

 

beachy

[beachcomber60]

Would it be worth throwing a solicitors letter at them to see if they will enter negotiation.

 

PF

 

 

Thanks PF,

 

have looked at Community Legal Aid, dont think I would qualify, so currently looking out for a no win no fee solicitor, too much to lose by giving into their bog off letters.

 

If their systems that were in place AFTER regulated by the FSA then it just show what an absolute shambles it was BEFORE they became regulated (thats my thoughts anyway).

 

Understand the change to the avatar.

 

Beachy

[pompeyfaith]

thats the spirt keep going hard slog i know but thats what they prey on still options open yet PF

[beachcomber60]

OH received reply from Santander regarding claim for late/over limit charges.

 

They say (will post letter later if interested) that they act within OFT guidelines and that the agreement was signed as acceptance.

 

But as a gesture of goodwill they have processed a refund £9.00 (Who told 'em that figure was acceptable? coz it ruddy well isn't), as full and final settlement and that the £9.00 will be sent to CL Finance within the next ten days. It goes on to say that they will not be refunding interest on the account, when the application was signed OH was bound by certain T&C's, one of these is that they can charge interest on any outstanding balance. As the balance was not solely consistent of charges, the interest will not be removed.

 

OH trying to claim just over £105 + compound interest

 

So they literally told her to bog off with both this and PPI mis selling.

 

can they refund any charges to a DCA (who incidently, are in default of OH's CCA request by 5 months).

 

As always,

 

Beachy

[Pinky69]

They don't have proof of any of this without an agreement. Have you put the account in dispute given that the DCA have not responded to your CCA request?

[beachcomber60]

Hi Pinky,

 

Thanks for your reply, OH stopped paying CL after a cca reminder failed to get an acknowledgement from them, we SAR Santander & they responded with an unreadable micrfiche copy of the application/agreement - tried pushing them for a readable copy and were told that they have compied & the agreement is enforceable (even tho' CL state they own the debt absolute).

 

Just went for the charges as the appetiser, its the ppi I went to get back from them as its twice the amount of the balance, but they just wont budge on that score.

 

Are they right in saying any refund goes to CL.

 

Beachy

[Pinky69]

Any refund should go to you as it is money they shouldn't have taken from you.

[Pinky69]

Sorry. I should have said that to get your PPI back on the grounds of mis-selling, make a formal claim to Santander and if they won't budge, take it to the FOS. The FOS are generally useless and take some time to reply but this is one area in which they have been very good.

[beachcomber60]

Sorry. I should have said that to get your PPI back on the grounds of mis-selling, make a formal claim to Santander and if they won't budge, take it to the FOS. The FOS are generally useless and take some time to reply but this is one area in which they have been very good.

 

Thanks Pinky,

 

I thought that was the case, I'm sure I read somewhere on the forum that Martin had a similar problem - will search it out later.

 

Regarding the ppi they owe OH just over £6k & me over £9k but wont budge a mm, they say werent regulated - you signed (we didnt) so tough, deciding our next move on that one.

 

Thanks again,

 

Mr & Mrs Beachy (rather formal I know, but getting in the mood - entertaining tonight )

 

 

PS - Found it - Son of Steven

Edited August 29, 2009 by beachcomber60
PS added

[beachcomber60]

OH sent off for a refund of charges from Santander (Debenhams Store Card), this was their reply - already stand no chance of reclaiming ppi now it looks like they aint gonna refund charges

 

 

 

 

Page 2

 

 

How can we stop CL getting their mits on it, dont think its got anything to do with them, they cant even provide the cca. Surely they should seek OH's agreement and acceptance before making a pathatic refund gesture - sorry but this one's got me mad as hell!

[dx100uk]

the £12 is just a GUIDELINE it is NOT law. carryon with your reclaim & dont forget comp int at their rate + 8% stat.

 

hit them with a court case they will fold.

 

 

now whats this about the PPI, post a link to the thread.

 

dx

[beachcomber60]

Thanks dx,

 

have put in two claims for mis selling ppi one for OH (£6,000 approx.) and my account (£9,400 approx.), Santander have basically told us that we signed for it, accepted it & didnt cancel within 30 days so tough as they werent regulated at the time, I've thrown everything at them that I can find but they wont budge. FOS cant help & the option is the FLA which is a waste of time or court but as both claims are in excess of £5k we're worried about costs.

 

Pompey has been very helpful in the ppi forum, now reached stalemate with Santander.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/205616-debenhams-store-card-ppi.html