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    • Hi all,   I had an Lloyds bank overdraft in 2019 with the overdraft amount being £1350 maxed out by December 2019. I had left the account alone for two/three months as the overdraft fees were basically ruining me(Adding to the £1350 overdraft), i then received a letter from Lloyds asking me to phone them regarding this debt (This was January 2020). I had phoned Lloyds and we went through an expenditure on the phone and the outcome was i was to make payment of £30 towards the debt for 6 months and then after the 6 months is up they would get in touch with me to discuss further options. (There was mention in January that after the 6 months there was a possibility of a loan to pay of the remaining balance and then you make payments against the loan for however many years/months you choose.) It is worth noting that whilst i was making these payments they seized all interest on my account.    I have made every payment since January and have gradually managed to reduce my overdraft down to £1200. My problem is that the bank have phoned as it now at that stage for re-discussion, they have asked me to go through another expenditure and i panicked and over estimated things to make it look like i had less income; not loads but i was in a deficit of -£47. Due to this they said they could not allow me to take out a loan as it would only mean i was borrowing more to pay of debt which they would not allow. It then got passed over to another team and he said that i only had two options. Take a one month break with all interest etc stopped and this will allow me to seek financial advice elsewhere, or they said they would default the payment and i can then pay the minimum i can afford but the default would stay on my credit file for 6 years. He mentioned that they wouldn't take any money of me to help clear the debt as i had a deficit of -£47 and that shows i financially cannot afford to do that option. I have looked at the effects a default can make to your credit file and it impacts it tremendously.   Lloyds asked me how i cover my expenses every month and i mentioned that my Grandparents help me out sometimes with cash flow. So the gentleman at Lloyd's suggested going away and asking my grandparents if they could contribute money to me to help aid in my debt. so that he could go back to the original team(I think collections team) and say she now has this ____ He is due to phone me on Thursday (Tomorrow). I can afford to contribute probably £50-£80 a month but it would mean cutting down on fuel and some other expenses.   Its worth noting that i have a credit card with Nationwide maxed to £1000 too and this will soon be at the stage where they charge interest and i cannot afford to clear this either. Is this worth writing to them about?   Is there anyone that can advise me on what to do to help me pay as little as i can and avoid the default PLEASE, any help is really REALLY appreciated.   Thank you all in advance.
    • In terms of whether or not this is a private sale, clearly it will be for a judge to decide. It seems to me that we have somebody here who bred a litter of puppies and has sold several of them or all of them at probably around £1200 each. I think that is very different from selling your own private second-hand car to get what you can for it in order, for instance, to buy another one. Anyway it's for the judge to decide. In terms of whether or not the seller is aware of the defects – if they are a private seller – all it really means is that they are not subject to sale of goods legislation so that a purchaser in a private sale does not have specific protections. After that you have to fall back onto the common law of contract and once again I think that the liabilities are reasonably strict and I still think that even in a private sale if you bought something with defects which was represented to you as being without defects then you would probably have a good case. In this case, the dog has been accompanied by a health certificate and I think that is as good as any kind of representation dog is without defects. I think we are coming to an altogether more interesting issue. Apparently the dental defect with this puppy is observable and could have been detected by any reasonably careful examination carried out by a reasonable professional. But apparently also there is the possibility that there may be a more complicated problem which could be addressed by work costing up to £2000. What I'd like to know is whether this more complicated problem is as a result of the failure to spot the initial problem. Even if the initial problem had been spotted, with this still be a possibility that this more complicated work would be necessary? I suppose what I'm getting to his that at what point does one decide that a defect is an unacceptable defect or simply a risk that comes with purchasing all animals and therefore could still be considered as "satisfactory" because it would meet the reasonable expectations of any reasonable pet owner. To put it bluntly: are we saying here that if you buy an animal is less than genetically perfect, that you are purchasing defective goods and you are entitled to a refund? Does this mean that all animal traders are obliged to ensure that all the animals they sell are genetically perfect? This is dangerous territory: eugenics.  
    • a dn can be issued even on one default payment.
    • I think I still remain to be convinced that a court would not find the seller's offer to take the puppy back and give the OP a full refund both reasonable and acceptable.   Ignoring that this is the sale of a puppy, isn't this more akin to the private sale of a second-hand car?   I don't really know what the phrase:  "I recently bought a puppy from a home breeder. They have never breed dogs before and aren't a licensed business" means.  Is this a business to consumer sale, or is it simply the opportunistic private sale of puppies from a domestic litter?  I think the OP needs to establish this because it's not clear to me - yet.   AIUI, if I as a private individual privately sold, say,  a car with umpteen non-apparent faults or defects with it, but I was honestly unaware of them and could not be expected to be aware of them, then I'm not liable for any breach of contract when those faults and defects manifest themselves to the buyer a week later.  Isn't that what worried private sellers of cars are told here when aggrieved purchasers threaten to sue them?  It's not immediately obvious to me why this is necessarily any different - unless this is clearly a business to consumer sale.   The OP also says:  "Our puppy was sold as having passed a full health check from Vets4Pets", and so far as I can see this isn't disputed.  Unless that health check revealed the dental problem the OP is now complaining about, but the OP never was shown it (seems unlikely that the seller would mention it but not make the results available), then I think the seller may well be entitled to rely on it.  What more could they do to ascertain the health of the puppy?   I think this is not necessarily a clear-cut claim, and from the way the OP describes the breeder I think the question whether this is a consumer sale or a private sale may not have a black or white answer.     1.  The OP mentions following advice to buy puppies bred from a "home pet" (or similar such wording).  Not clear if this was the case here, but if it was, doesn't this suggest a private rather than consumer or trade sale?   2.  The OP also suggests that the health of the puppy was misrepresented, but is this necessarily correct?  They say the puppy was advertised as having had a "full health check", but that's not the same as saying the puppy was actually healthy.  And if it was a private sale, is the seller required to declare health problems they are aware of if they aren't specifically asked?
    • Ok,    I thought it may of helped as their DN stated 2 installments in arrears when it was issued on 10/2/17, but it would infact only have been 1 installment overdue 17/01/17.   I will keep to what I already know and stop over thinking further issues. 😁    
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MurphyW

RBS/Carter claimform - Mint Card - CCA Is This Enforeable?

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Hi,

Ive CCA'd Mint for my card agreement and they have seemingly sent a good copy of a signed agreement.

They also attached a 3 pages of a photocopied set of Terms & Conditions.

Lots of very small print that will not scan & copy very well so have not included it here at the moment.

 

Could someone please have a look at the Credit agreement an tell me if you think that it is enforceable or what action to take next to try and verify it.

 

They sent current T&C's plus a Card re-issue letter with associated T&C's

Also current outstanding values owed to the account.

The signature, dates, my information and name all seem to be correct.

Have also attached the letter they sent with it.

 

Hope you can give me some good news.

Thanx

Murph

Edited by MurphyW

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It doesn't contain the prescribed terms within the four corners of the agreement so is unenforceable, see;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html


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Thanx Cerberus,

Appreciated the fast reply and clear help pointers.

I'll read through that and see where i go next.

O/S balance approx £10k

Will I need to CPS to get docs or SARN them?

Yours

Murph

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You could try them with this first;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign


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Hi Cerberus,

Thank you for pointing out the missing aspects that are required.

I wouldn't have known what I was looking for.

I've done a letter as suggested and will send it recorded delivery.

On the 19th june I received a letter advising of my account termination.

See copy of 2 pages here.

 

Do I need to respond to this and in what way please?

I much appreciate all this help as things were getting pretty bad all round.

Yours

Murph

Edited by MurphyW

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No you don't need to respond to it.

 

Did you receive a default notice?


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Hi Cerberus,

Yes, they sent me a default notice way back on the 20th May 2009, received 23/05/09, along with OFT Leaflet

 

They also sent a letter acknowledging my I & E financial statement separately on the same day.

 

Where does this leave me now?

Will the letter that I've just done based on your suggestion above create a delay or should I be looking at going down the CPR route?

Thanks for your help.

Yours

Murph

Edited by MurphyW
Revising picture links - Same documents as originals

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The Default Notice is defective because they are required to stipulate a remedy date, it is not sufficient just to state that it has to be remedied within 17 days of the date of the notice. When they terminate the a/c they will only be able to claim the arrears, the remaining balance will in effect have to be written off.


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With luck when you get the CCA that will be unenforceable too. :)


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

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Hi Cerberus,

Well it has been quite quiet for some time.

They did respond to my SA request with a load of papers and the same application form as in my previous post.

 

No proper CCA with all the prescribed terms and signatures.

They have now sent me this letter threatening further action to sell the debt.

What 's the next possible course of action considering they have issued a duff default notice and there would not appear to be a true CCA?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

I'm not in a position to pay these people anything at the moment. I had hoped to be able to have a new business into profit by now but still struggling.

Murphy

Edited by MurphyW

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I'd ignore them for now, you need them to terminate the a/c then you can hit them with the double whammy of the CCA not being enforceable & the DN being defective. ;)


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

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subbing


________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

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Subbing to, in exactly the same position with them

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Hi everyone,

They have finally passed the debt onto their lackeys at Triton (Owned by RBS) to collect some money. I don't think so!!

 

I don't have any! They do not have a valid CCA, did not issue the default notice correctly and have now terminated the account.

 

Should I write to Triton?

Which is the best letter to use.

Refer them back to Mint?

How should I proceed with Mint now?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

Yours Murphy

Edited by MurphyW

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Edit this to suite and send it to Triton;

Invalid DN & Agreement Termination Letter Template 1.doc


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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Thanks for the fast reply Cerberus,

I take it that I amend that letter and address it to triton but referring to all details that have occurred with Mint rather than RBS who were the original lender.

How would I find out what date they entered a default notice on my credit file please?

Yours

Murphy

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Just change crap1 to Mint/RBS & send to Triton.

 

You can check your credit file for free at https://www.annualcreditreport.co.uk/account/create.htm once you've registered they send you log in details through the post. It will show when the default was first registered.


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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Murphy,

I personally use the IMG code to paste on your thread and then not everone can access your photobucket account

Edited by exasperated

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Hi Guys,

Don't be too exasperated with me!!

Thanks for the heads up over my name.

I usually try to check but must have been in a bit of a hurry with that one.

Have changed the links IMG's. Thanks for the tip.

Murphy

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Hi Cerberus,

I signed up for the credit file check.

There is an initial one off registration fee to pay of £2.50 but this gives you access to the key relevant bits of the different accounts and their status.

You can get more information by paying a wee bit more of £4.97 per year if anyone wants to.

I suggest that these are both great value when viewed avgainst the competition "Check my file" etc.

Yours

Murphy

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Hi There,

I sent the letter but took out the references to the data protection bit as they have not got a default registered with the credit reference agencies.

The flag has been set to Green OK rather than D even after the 6 months of missed / reduced payments.

I'll keep that bit for later if the indicator is changed.

Yours

Murphy

Letter as here: -

Edited by MurphyW
Added Picture of letter sent

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Hi again,

They've now passed my letter 17 back to Mint who have acknowledge it by saying that they are looking into the matter!

 

It will be interesting to see what they have to say next.

Will keep you up to date as and when.

Murphy

Edited by MurphyW
Added Letter Picture File

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Well they've taken a while to enjoy their xmas break and Triton have decide they need to try and move things along.

I've not had any response from the enquiries that Mint were going to make yet!

Triton think they can push with this letter: -

 

 

I think I'll write and refer them to Mint's response and my last letter and tell them to stop chasing me for payment.

Has anyone any other ideas how to treat this please?

Yours

Murph

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Empty threats M. Will do no harm to write and keep that paper trail going but no harm in ignoring it. Personally, i'd ignore it. It's empty :)

 

M


________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

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Hi again,

Well time goes on and on 24th March 2010 Mint finally replied to my letter of contention basically refuting what i said and looks like challenging me to make the first move in a legal action on the second page ...

 

I decided to wait and see what they would do next.

No point in starting legal costs on my side.

Yours

Murph

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