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MurphyW

RBS/Carter claimform - Mint Card - CCA Is This Enforeable?

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Hi,

Ive CCA'd Mint for my card agreement and they have seemingly sent a good copy of a signed agreement.

They also attached a 3 pages of a photocopied set of Terms & Conditions.

Lots of very small print that will not scan & copy very well so have not included it here at the moment.

 

Could someone please have a look at the Credit agreement an tell me if you think that it is enforceable or what action to take next to try and verify it.

 

They sent current T&C's plus a Card re-issue letter with associated T&C's

Also current outstanding values owed to the account.

The signature, dates, my information and name all seem to be correct.

Have also attached the letter they sent with it.

 

Hope you can give me some good news.

Thanx

Murph

Edited by MurphyW

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It doesn't contain the prescribed terms within the four corners of the agreement so is unenforceable, see;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html


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Thanx Cerberus,

Appreciated the fast reply and clear help pointers.

I'll read through that and see where i go next.

O/S balance approx £10k

Will I need to CPS to get docs or SARN them?

Yours

Murph

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You could try them with this first;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign


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Hi Cerberus,

Thank you for pointing out the missing aspects that are required.

I wouldn't have known what I was looking for.

I've done a letter as suggested and will send it recorded delivery.

On the 19th june I received a letter advising of my account termination.

See copy of 2 pages here.

 

Do I need to respond to this and in what way please?

I much appreciate all this help as things were getting pretty bad all round.

Yours

Murph

Edited by MurphyW

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No you don't need to respond to it.

 

Did you receive a default notice?


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Hi Cerberus,

Yes, they sent me a default notice way back on the 20th May 2009, received 23/05/09, along with OFT Leaflet

 

They also sent a letter acknowledging my I & E financial statement separately on the same day.

 

Where does this leave me now?

Will the letter that I've just done based on your suggestion above create a delay or should I be looking at going down the CPR route?

Thanks for your help.

Yours

Murph

Edited by MurphyW
Revising picture links - Same documents as originals

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The Default Notice is defective because they are required to stipulate a remedy date, it is not sufficient just to state that it has to be remedied within 17 days of the date of the notice. When they terminate the a/c they will only be able to claim the arrears, the remaining balance will in effect have to be written off.


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With luck when you get the CCA that will be unenforceable too. :)


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

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Hi Cerberus,

Well it has been quite quiet for some time.

They did respond to my SA request with a load of papers and the same application form as in my previous post.

 

No proper CCA with all the prescribed terms and signatures.

They have now sent me this letter threatening further action to sell the debt.

What 's the next possible course of action considering they have issued a duff default notice and there would not appear to be a true CCA?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

I'm not in a position to pay these people anything at the moment. I had hoped to be able to have a new business into profit by now but still struggling.

Murphy

Edited by MurphyW

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I'd ignore them for now, you need them to terminate the a/c then you can hit them with the double whammy of the CCA not being enforceable & the DN being defective. ;)


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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subbing


________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

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Hi everyone,

They have finally passed the debt onto their lackeys at Triton (Owned by RBS) to collect some money. I don't think so!!

 

I don't have any! They do not have a valid CCA, did not issue the default notice correctly and have now terminated the account.

 

Should I write to Triton?

Which is the best letter to use.

Refer them back to Mint?

How should I proceed with Mint now?

Sorry to ask so many questions.

Yours Murphy

Edited by MurphyW

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Edit this to suite and send it to Triton;

Invalid DN & Agreement Termination Letter Template 1.doc


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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Thanks for the fast reply Cerberus,

I take it that I amend that letter and address it to triton but referring to all details that have occurred with Mint rather than RBS who were the original lender.

How would I find out what date they entered a default notice on my credit file please?

Yours

Murphy

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Just change crap1 to Mint/RBS & send to Triton.

 

You can check your credit file for free at https://www.annualcreditreport.co.uk/account/create.htm once you've registered they send you log in details through the post. It will show when the default was first registered.


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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Murphy,

I personally use the IMG code to paste on your thread and then not everone can access your photobucket account

Edited by exasperated

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Hi Guys,

Don't be too exasperated with me!!

Thanks for the heads up over my name.

I usually try to check but must have been in a bit of a hurry with that one.

Have changed the links IMG's. Thanks for the tip.

Murphy

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Hi Cerberus,

I signed up for the credit file check.

There is an initial one off registration fee to pay of £2.50 but this gives you access to the key relevant bits of the different accounts and their status.

You can get more information by paying a wee bit more of £4.97 per year if anyone wants to.

I suggest that these are both great value when viewed avgainst the competition "Check my file" etc.

Yours

Murphy

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Hi There,

I sent the letter but took out the references to the data protection bit as they have not got a default registered with the credit reference agencies.

The flag has been set to Green OK rather than D even after the 6 months of missed / reduced payments.

I'll keep that bit for later if the indicator is changed.

Yours

Murphy

Letter as here: -

Edited by MurphyW
Added Picture of letter sent

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Hi again,

They've now passed my letter 17 back to Mint who have acknowledge it by saying that they are looking into the matter!

 

It will be interesting to see what they have to say next.

Will keep you up to date as and when.

Murphy

Edited by MurphyW
Added Letter Picture File

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Well they've taken a while to enjoy their xmas break and Triton have decide they need to try and move things along.

I've not had any response from the enquiries that Mint were going to make yet!

Triton think they can push with this letter: -

 

 

I think I'll write and refer them to Mint's response and my last letter and tell them to stop chasing me for payment.

Has anyone any other ideas how to treat this please?

Yours

Murph

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Empty threats M. Will do no harm to write and keep that paper trail going but no harm in ignoring it. Personally, i'd ignore it. It's empty :)

 

M


________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

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Hi again,

Well time goes on and on 24th March 2010 Mint finally replied to my letter of contention basically refuting what i said and looks like challenging me to make the first move in a legal action on the second page ...

 

I decided to wait and see what they would do next.

No point in starting legal costs on my side.

Yours

Murph

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