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Selling on your debt..... is this possible?

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Well I came a cross this company called matrix plc. They are doing seminars at the moment but I am pretty sure they are an agent of the creditcardkiller. Anyways they basically buy your debt off you, i.e. credit card debt, loan debt etc, they are at pains to suggest its nothing to do with unenforceablility and they can get it done within a few weeks, i.e. the debt is gone in a few weeks.

 

Sounds great but can debt legally be sold to another company, I know credit card co/s etc will happily sell debt on to agencies so therefore can it be done the other way?

 

If so why not set up a company buy lots of debt fronm your own cards, mates etc then put the company into liquidation? I am presuming this is not a wise thing to do and there is likely to be someone who would question it but you see my point? What views does anyone have?

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Can't be done. Don't get involved


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BankFodder. I too have been contacted by Matrix plc to see if i want to become an agent for them. You say don't touch them and you are most likely right but can you explain why please ?

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The Company was a 'phoenix' from Meagher plc run by Tim Meagher. It went into liquidation some time last year. I beleive Tim Meagher is also behind Matrix plc.

As Bankfodder said I would advise to stay well clear. I beleive that to sell your debt you need the agreement of the original lender which they are unlikely to give. The sale of the debt to a third party would therefore not be valid without the original lenders agreement

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That makes absolute sense. I might just ask them how they get over that one.

Thx

Hopster

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The OFT raen't impressed with these claims either. ;)

 

Link: Alert on misleading debt adverts

 

The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) says there has been a surge in these adverts from debt and claims management companies.

 

But it says debts cannot legally be sold without a lender's permission.

 

Some companies offering this "service" are now going to be prosecuted or closed down.


[SIZE=2][COLOR=SeaGreen][FONT=Verdana][URL="http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/"][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

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And...............

 

OFT advisory - OFT warns consumers about 'debt sale' scams

 

The OFT is warning consumers not to be taken in by businesses claiming to help them become debt free by 'buying' or 'selling on' their debts.

 

The warning follows a significant increase in the number of adverts on the internet and in newspapers from claims management companies that misleadingly state they can take over liability for debts or write off debts by purchasing consumers' credit agreements.

 

In fact the law does not allow the sale of debt without the lender's permission and so businesses that suggest otherwise are making clearly misleading claims. Brokers who introduce clients to claims management companies that say that they can 'buy' and 'sell on' consumer debts are also misleading consumers.

 

Consumers need to be aware that if they 'sell' their debts to one of these businesses, either directly or through a broker, they will still be liable for their original repayment obligations as well as losing the money they paid for this false service.

 

Consumers will also still be subject to any debt collection activity and negative credit scoring associated with the original debt.

 

The principal regulator for claims management companies is the Ministry of Justice but businesses that operate in the credit/debt sector also need to be licensed by the OFT. Some of the firms offering these services do not have consumer credit licences and the OFT is working in partnership with local trading standards services to prosecute them for unlicensed trading. Formal licensing enforcement action has already been initiated against licensed companies whose advertising or websites are making these misleading claims.

 

Ray Watson, OFT Director of Credit, said:

 

'Like most scams, when something looks too good to be true, it usually is, and this is certainly the case here. You cannot simply sell on your debt and its liabilities, and businesses that make misleading claims to the contrary are just trying to take advantage of consumers' distress.'

 

'The OFT will not hesitate to take swift action against businesses which deliberately mislead consumers.'

 

'Consumers with debt problems should contact their creditor to arrange a repayment plan or their local Citizens Advice Bureau who will be able to provide free advice.'

Edited by fermi
Update OFT link

[SIZE=2][COLOR=SeaGreen][FONT=Verdana][URL="http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/"][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

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Yes would be very interesting. Would love to know if anyone is planning on going!

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I registered to go and a friend of mine I haven't seen in a while is down there so will be going along, so I will let you know what they say when I present them with the articles.

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I was planning on going but now have to go away until 3rd July. Please keep posted of how you get on.

Hopster

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Well I went today and I met Mr Rankine, there must have been about 200+ people there, most I am told were either mortgage brokers or debt management companies.

 

They brought up all of what you guys are mentioning above and simply they said tell me why it cannot be done fair enought this is what the OFT have said but the ministry of Justice have said it falls out of their remit, I saw sight of a letter proving that. What he was basically saying was that he has come up against these barriers lots of times before i.e. the big boys saying no it cannot be done but he has proved them wrong in the past and has vowed to do it again. Now is that a valid argument, I know plenty of people will say its not and I have no reason to disagree but I have no reason to agree either as we have not have difinitive proof that debt cannot be sold on.

 

All of this comes under contract law not the consumer credit licence act, what he said was that the consumer and the creditor are essentially 2 entities and therefore debt can be sold on whether it be from I as the consumer to which ev er company and likewise the other way round i.e. the creditor selling it on to a debt collection agency.

 

It does go back to my 1st question why can't I set up a company and buy everyones debt then wind up the company. I am still not convinced I can't do that, morally its not good of course.

 

Either way I am still dubious and I am going to wait and see what the OFT does and if they prosecute anybody, these guys didn't seem to bothered about all this and the guys doing all the talking was very credible.

 

As I said it was full of potential introducers and the fees are £350 + 10% of debt and ultimately they could not guarantee the clients credit file would not be affected but if I can see proof legally that these guys have taken on the liability of the debt, they have only shown us a couple of letter so far then maybe it could be done. I have a few colleagues who are trying it and I will keep you posted on how they manage it when they get a client through it all.

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the fees are £350 + 10% of debt

 

How do they 'buy' the debt, then? Or is this the standard Rankine 'debt elimination' scheme with up-front fees?

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I couldn't give you a technical answer to that apart from they assess whether its a debt they are willing to take on and then they simply buy it for £1, it then goes into their name. They write to the credit ond debtor and tell them all its been transferred in to their companies name.

 

I am thinking this is exactly what the standard 'debt elimination' scheme you are talking about is?

 

Expensive, yes it is I agree, although if it works cheap but I don't want you guys to think I am advocating it I just want to know it definitely can't be done.

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Also apparently you do not need agreement from the lender to sell on the debt, the loans companies do not need our permission to sell it on to a debt recovery company.

 

Although with that logic why can't someone with good credit get out a loan pass the money to someone with bad credit and also pass on the liability, or sell the debt and then essentially sell it for more make a tidy profit on the cheap loan? Suppose thats what loan companies do every day but can we as the public do it? again I can't see that being right.

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Ok, the Rankines 'buy' your debt for a pound. Are creditors just going to accept that? More likely is that they will ignore it and still chase the debtor, issue defaults and claims at court. At which point, the debtor will be forced to defend it (ie I've sold it for £1) and IMO have judgement against them.

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Also apparently you do not need agreement from the lender to sell on the debt, the loans companies do not need our permission to sell it on to a debt recovery company.

 

Although with that logic why can't someone with good credit get out a loan pass the money to someone with bad credit and also pass on the liability, or sell the debt and then essentially sell it for more make a tidy profit on the cheap loan? Suppose thats what loan companies do every day but can we as the public do it? again I can't see that being right.[/quote

 

 

 

 

A few years ago a relative took out a credit card loan, we were informed that if I wrote to the company and volunteered to take on the the loan the debt could be transfered to me.

 

This seems to fly in the face of regulation, but it was what I was told by the finance company:confused: Mind you it wouldn't be the first time financial bodies have given out the wrong info.....

 

Suppose it hinges on the fact that they were giving their permission for the transfer to take place?

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Thats exactly what I think is likely to happen as well and thats why its important that its bought legally and if that can be done and is done then its no longer your debt therefore taking the debtor to court could not happen. This is the grey area I think and if a solicitor or someone can show me this is legal then fine.

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This is the grey area I think and if a solicitor or someone can show me this is legal then fine.
Ultimately, regardless of what a solicitor says, it would be a court that decides

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I suppose if the credit card co. loan co. actually acknowledged your non liability then thats the best scenario.

 

One thing that was mentioned is that the credit card cos would rather deal with it this way than go to court or issue letters confirming the debt is unenforceable, also they would not have large solicitors bills to pay.

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I suppose if the credit card co. loan co. actually acknowledged your non liability then thats the best scenario.

 

That's a bl***y big if, and as yet there is not one confirmed instance of this happening

 

Personally I think this is a 'carrot' that the Rankines and their like are using to persuade desperate people to cough up £400 up front

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having discussed this with a top commercial silk who categorically confirmed that there is no way you can conduct the business that they claim to do.

 

personally, after the guidance weve received, the words would touch with barge pole spring to mind

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Fair enough but why can't you do it? Simply saying just because you can't is why I am still curious. So far nobody from either argument is giving valid enough reasons from either side saying why you can and why you can't.

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explain then, how can you sell something which you do not own?

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