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janice514

Progressive Financial Svs Ltd Help Needed Court Letter Received Can Anyone Help

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A friend of mine has received a letter from st helens court regarding a debt with welcome finance for a car around dec 2000 the car is in car heaven scrapped, she paid around 4500 for car, has had some problems through the years and now has received a failure to provide statement of means from court, a ccj was issued around 2006 and a legal charge against the house, she is out of her mind as debt now stands at 12,762.50 she cannot remember when last payment was made to them.

 

I am thinking that this debt has been bought by progressive financial??? are they a debt collection agency.

 

WHAT DO I DO WHAT LETTER DO I SEND TO STOP THIS, CAN I SEND A CCA REQUEST CAN YOU HELP AND ADVISE ME HOW TO STOP OF STALL THIS FOR NOW.

 

JX

 

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17.03.09

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have just cca welcome financial, in desperation does any one have e mail contact for progressive financial svcs to send also to them, hope i have done okay here.

 

what should i do about court ??? do i need to inform court or get friend to complete the statment of means

 

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp

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have read thread do i send the letter enclosed to court and to welcome, just worried as statement of means failure mentioned on court papers will this letter stop proceedings

jx

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shall i send this letter below, with it saying statement of means failure on court papers is this also the correct letter to send

 

ty x

 

1. I am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by CL Finance

Limited.

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants

Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

3. I am embarrassed at pleading to the particulars as they fail to comply with the Civil procedure rules, in particular

part 16 and practice direction 16, in particular paragraph 7.3 as the claimant has failed to supply a copy of the written

document which forms the basis of this claim.

4. The claimant has failed to set out how the figures which they claim are calculated nor do they set out the nature and

scope of any charges contained within the figure claimed

5. The claimant has failed to also attach a copy of the default notice which they claim has been served under s87 (1)

Consumer credit act 1974

6. The courts powers of enforcement in cases relating to Regulated Credit Agreements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 are

subject to certain qualifications being met with regards to the form and content of the documentation, in particular the

Credit agreement and the Default notice. Therefore these Documents must be produced before the court and must comply with

the relevant sections of the consumer credit act and the regulations made under the act, I will address these requirements

later in this defence

 

7. Further more the claimant has failed to attach a copy of the deed of assignment and proof of posting for the notice of

assignment which is required to comply with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925. so I place the claimant to strict

proof that the notice of assignment was posted prior to the start of this action. Should the claimant not be able to

produce this proof, I contend that the claimant would not have a legal right to this action and the case should be struck

out without further notice

8. Consequently due to the claimants failure to supply the documents required under the civil procedure rules and the fact

that the claimant has failed to sufficiently particularized the claim I deny all allegations in the particulars of claim

that I am indebted to the claimant in any way and put the claimant to strict proof thereof

9. I will now look at the important issues relating to this case which must be brought to the courts attention

 

Pre-action protocols

10. The claimant CL Finance Limited has failed to follow the pre-action protocols insofar as they did not send any letter

before action as required by paragraph 4.3 of Practice Direction-Protocols, nor did they attempt to enter into any

negotiations to try and resolve the issues. Instead they launched into immediate litigation and it would appear that they

did this before the assignment was carried out correctly.

The Request for Disclosure

(Copy of my CPR 21.14 request to Howard Cohen & Co. attached and also his response)

12. Further to the case, on 25 March 2009 I requested the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules,

which is vital to this case from the claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of the Credit Agreement

referred to in the particulars of claim and any default or termination notices, to rely on, including any default notices

or termination notice, and a copy of the Notice of Assignment required to give the claimant a legitimate right of action.

13. To Date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As

a result it has proven difficult to compose this defence without disclosure of the information requested, especially given

that I am Litigant in Person

14. The claimant is therefore put to strict proof that a document which is legible and Compliant with the Consumer Credit

Act and subsequent Regulations made under the Act exists

 

 

The Credit Agreement

 

15. The Agreement referred to in the particulars of claim relates to a Credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit

Act 1974. Under the said act there are certain conditions laid down by parliament which must be complied with if such

agreement is to be enforced by the courts

16. Firstly, the agreement must contain certain terms under regulations made by the Secretary of State under section 60(1)

CCA 1974, the regulations referred to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553)

17. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations

1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: -

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term

stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to

discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination

of any of the following:

1. Number of repayments

2. Amount of repayments

3. Frequency and timing of repayments

4. Dates of repayments

5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what

is payable

18. If the agreement does not contain these terms it does not comply with section 60(1) CCA 1974, the consequences of which

means it is improperly executed and only enforceable by court order

19. Notwithstanding point 18, The agreement must be signed in the prescribed manner to comply with s61 (1) CCA 1974, if the

agreement is not signed by debtor or creditor it is also improperly executed and again only enforceable by court order

20. The courts powers of enforcement where agreements are improperly executed by way of section 65 CCA 1974 are themselves

subject to certain qualifying factors. Under section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 the requirements are laid out clearly

what is required for the court to be able to enforce the agreement where section 65(1) has not been complied with127(3) The

court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied

with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself

containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer(whether or not in the prescribed

manner).

21. The courts attention is also drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)

which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 and the

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004

(SI2004/1482) the agreement cannot be enforced

22. With regards to the Authority cited in point 21, I refer to LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD in the House of Lords Wilson v

First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) paragraph 29

" The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is

where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an

enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed

by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential

prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order."

23. Therefore it is submitted that without production of the credit agreement no enforcement order should be made as this

would be unjust and against the rulings of the House of Lords and also against the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which was

enacted clearly to offer a certain level of protection to consumers

 

The Default Notice

24. Notwithstanding the matters pleaded above, the claimant must under section 87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 serve a

default notice before they can demand payment under a regulated credit agreement

25. It is neither admitted or denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant

puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

26. Notwithstanding point 25, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that

to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate

figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit

(Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer

Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

27. Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management

Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the

court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4

All ER 119

 

The Assignment of the debt

28. As stated in point 7, claimant had instigated this action, consequently, I require the claimant produce the Deed of

Assignment to show that it is indeed valid and compliant with the Law of Property Act 1925 and further more I require the

claimant disclose proof of posting per s196 LoP Act 1925

29. I refer to W F Harrison & Co Ltd v Burke and another - [1956] 2 All ER 169 where it was held that the notice of

assignment was bad because the date of the assignment was wrongly stated therein and, therefore, the legal right to the

debt under the hire-purchase agreement had not been assigned effectually at law within s 136(1) a of the Law of Property

Act, 1925 and put the claimant to strict proof that the assignment has been carried out correctly

30. If no Deed of Assignment can be produced it is requested that the court strike out the claimants’ case as the claimant

will not have a right to bring this action against me in their name

Conclusion

31. I respectfully ask the court to use its case management powers to order the claimant to disclose the information

requested within this defence document as it is vital to allow me the opportunity to defend this action properly and would

be unjust and totally unfair to allow this action to continue without allowing me the opportunity to view the documents

which form the basis of this claim

32. I further ask the court consider striking out the claimants’ case as it fails to comply with part 16 and practice

direction 16 insofar that no documents have been supplied and fails to show any consideration to the overriding objective

to allow the court to deal with this case justly

33. In addition, if the claimant cannot produce a credit agreement in the prescribed form signed in the prescribed manner

by debtor and creditor, the court is precluded from making an enforcement order under s127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and

it is requested that the court use its powers under section 142 Consumer Credit Act 1974 to declare the agreement

unenforceable and strike out the claimants case accordingly

34. Alternatively, I respectfully request a stay in proceedings until such time as the claimant complies with the requests

outlined in point 12 above or until the court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a

fully particularised defence and counterclaim and will seek the courts permission to amend my statement of case

accordingly.

 

 

35. In addition it is drawn to the courts attention that schedule 3, s11 of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 prevents s15

repealing s127 (3) of the 1974 Act for agreements made before s15 came into effect since the agreement is alleged to have

commenced under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which is the relevant act in this case.

 

Statement of Truth

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morning janice

 

you have moved into my area with this lot

 

progresive financial services is another name for welcome finance, the dca for them is called the lewis group.

they are all part of the soon to be defunked cattles empire.

 

for a start, does she have a copy of the old pertic of claim form from the solicitors in charge of the cca

 

welcome are very naughty as usual

 

seems they are charging interest post judgement, never seen an agreement yet that allows them to do that.

 

were you aware of the claim, did you defend, dont worry if it was head in the sand, we have all done that

 

a ccj can be set asside with good grounds, with welcome no prob but it is up to a judge and will cost 75 quid

 

the county court claim and charging order starts all over again, this time it will be welcome on the back foot

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thankyou so much been so worried all night, a friend of mine called to my house last night, i had told her all about the forum and she came to me for help, she has had so much going on lately, lost her husband last november and is so worried, and i must admitt i was so out of my water when i read the court letter.

 

She has no paperwork she binned it all, and hid her head, she did get a ccj and charging order on her house, but the loan was for 4500 and is now at around 12000, i have cca welcome is that correct?? but dont know what to do about this court form, and what to send to court to stop it in its tracks.

 

ty for your help,

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i await your response, i am helping so many people at the moment with debts with use of this site, just seems the best thing to do, what would i do without you all

 

 

xx

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Hi Janice.

 

I'm no expert in this but if your friend has been ordered to do something by a court then it must be done.. so if the court are asking for info it must be sent.

 

In the meantime your friend can send a CCA and SAR to welcome finance.

once they have responded to these requests you can set about getting the CCJ set aside. It is long winded but it is also possible.

 

Tell your friend not to worry... the court cannot take what he/she hasn't got!!

 

So first things first.. What exactly has the court asked for... can you scan a copy of the document masking personal details and post it up for us to see?

 

Spam. :)


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

'Simples.' ;)

 

Any advice I offer is probably useless but there may be little nuggets of gold in there somewhere......If I have helped in any way, be it with knowledge or by giving your chuckle muscle some exercise please feel free to tip my scales....:-D

 

 

They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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hello again here is bit off court letter typed in for you

 

does state date of 29 july 2009 12.30

 

here goes

 

you have failed to give the court within the time specified a statement of your earning resources and means in accordance with section 14 of the attachment of earning act 1971.

 

you are therefore ordered to attend court in person at st helens county court bla bla ba

 

to give good reasons why you should not be sent to prison for up to 14 days or fined up to 250.00 under section 23 of the attachment of earnings act

 

 

the date on this is 12 may 2009

 

jx forumbox_top_left.gifforumbox_top_tile.gifforumbox_top_right.gifforumbox_left_tile.gifclose.gif County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook.

This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim.

This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself.

Applies to England and Wales

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Hi Janice

 

As A Ccj Has Been Granted, The Agreement Has Ben Terminated And Welcome Have No Obligation To Release That Data

 

What You Need To Send Is An Sar Request

 

Send By Recorded Delievery To This Office

Use A Postel Order And Print, Never Sign Your Name

 

Welcome Financial Services

Compliance

Ruddington Fields Biz Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

Ng11 6nz

 

Ill Dig Out The Sar Template For You

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it is court form stating that she hasnt completed statement of earnings, should i just get her to complete this asap and return to court ???

jx

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ty xx i will wait xx

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My personal advice would be to get your friend to do the Statement of Earnings and either take it to the Court or send it registered post with a Copy of the letter she has been sent and also a covering letter stating why she hasn't sent one before... something like didn't understand etc and also apologising for the delay.

That hopefully should stand her in good stead for the Hearing which she MUST attend unless she hears to the contrary.

The thing to do now in my humble opinion is just bow and scrape to the court until that part of it is sorted and in the meantime gather up as much ammo to shoot Welcome down and go for the jugular!

 

Just get the court off your friends back first and then we can play with the naughty creditor. :p;)


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

'Simples.' ;)

 

Any advice I offer is probably useless but there may be little nuggets of gold in there somewhere......If I have helped in any way, be it with knowledge or by giving your chuckle muscle some exercise please feel free to tip my scales....:-D

 

 

They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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Company name

Address

Town

County

Postcode

 

Date Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

 

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

 

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

 

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

 

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

Your name

Name

 

 

YOU NEED TO SEND THIS TO WELCOME

 

WAIT TILL TONIGHT BEFORE YOU USE IT AS I HAVE TO AMMEND IT SLIGHTLY

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will get on the case straight away, with letter get this off and statement of means filled in, trying to call her and shes gone out lol, i get frustrated just want to done now lol.

 

j x

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will get on the case straight away, with letter get this off and statement of means filled in, trying to call her and shes gone out lol, i get frustrated just want to done now lol.

 

j x

 

I can Understand! :lol:

 

The things to remember are Don't panic (easier said than done!)

 

Always do what the court ask even if you don't agree with them..:eek:

 

and we are all here to help you and your friend stuff Welcome Finance when you're ready.

 

Any questions... just ask. ;-)

 

Spam.:)


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

'Simples.' ;)

 

Any advice I offer is probably useless but there may be little nuggets of gold in there somewhere......If I have helped in any way, be it with knowledge or by giving your chuckle muscle some exercise please feel free to tip my scales....:-D

 

 

They say money talks......mine just keeps saying "Goodbye"

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tytytyt have e mailed all letters through to her to complete, havent slept all nite worrying about her 13000 is alot of money isnt it, so what ever i can do to help i will

 

i panic for everyone lol the worlds worrier

 

xxxxx

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The Summons Is From Progressive Financial Services

Who Are The Solicitors Mentioned On The Claim Form

Is Is

H Cohen

Or

Pearce

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Remember

 

If Welcome Are Still Charging Interest, They Are In Big Trouble

BUT NEED TO SEE THE ORIGINAL COURT CLAIM FORM

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the only name on form is progressive? no other solicitor has been stated as far as i am aware

 

jx

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just e mailing her now to find out if any solicitor stated??/

 

jx

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Thanks

 

It Will Be Cohen Or Pearce As The Norm

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Progressive are aslo known to be trading as Shop Direct and have links to Littlewoods catalogue chain. They shouldn't charge anything other than interest at 8% after a CCJ, that needs to be brought to the courts attention.

 

Also if your friend lost her husband that is a very good thing to put down as suffering bereavement is a very valid reason for not supplying the court with income and expenditure.

 

I think they are on a very sticky wicket with this one and using a sledgehammer approach when they know they barely got through in the first place.

 

On the grounds of the bereavement there is a good reason to get the whole case set aside.

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We Think Alike Sillygirl

Lets Make This A Good One

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