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kolosus

Dropped footway - is there definition ? PCN

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Hello,

 

I've received PCN : Parked adjacent to a dropped footway,

I did not realize that until I have received PCN,

I decided to appeal. Here is my letter:

 

 

The Parking Office

London Borough of Hounslow

Civic Centre

Lampton Road

Hounslow TW3 4DN

Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking ticket number: HW*******

Vehicle registration number: ********

I received a parking ticket on 30/04/2009 for the reason of 'Parked adjacent to dropped footway' but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit an appeal for the following reasons:

There was insufficient signage to spot dropped footway.

I was unable to determine what the relevant parking restrictions were because there is not visible dropped footway. Any part of that footway has not been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway, as it state in Section 14 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003.

The drop is only 30 mm and is 90 mm high from carriageway, when on the other side of the road the drop is 100 mm and is 10 mm high from carriageway (see pict 1). 4 meters before that “dropped footway” the kerb is closer to the carriageway then along “dropped footway”(see pict 3).

When I drove on 30/04/2009 to park my car I could not see any dropped footway in that place, otherwise I would not park there.(see pict 2).

Thank you for your attention and I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

On 09/06/09 I have received answer which state:

" .....

I have considered your mitigating circumstances, however the Civil Enforcement Officer has noted your vehicle was parked causing an obstruction to pedestrians and wheelchair users. Photographs taken by the Civil Enforcement Officer clearly shows no wheels were parked on the kerb and that pedestrians especially wheelchair and prams users would not be able to pass clearly as your vehicle was causing an obstruction.

 

To clearly outline the definition of dropped kerbs and crossovers; Dropped kerbs are where the footpath has been lowered, often at corners, to allow wheelchair access to cross the road and to make it easier for pedestrians to push trolleys and prams across from the pavement on one side of the road to the pavement on the other. They do not provide access to property whereas Crossovers are authorized paths for vehicles to cross the footpath into private property.

 

The Traffic Management Act (2004) states for dropped footways:

 

Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.

(1) In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where—

(a) the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of— (i) assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,

 

(ii) assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or

 

(iii) assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge; or

 

 

 

(b) the carriageway has, for a purpose within paragraph (a)(i) to (iii), been raised to meet the level of the footway, cycle track or verge.

 

Please note within this contravertion the carriageway can be raised to meet the kerb as noted above, therefore the Penalty Charge Notice was issued correctly. Also there is no requirement for any signs indicating this restriction. ....

....."

 

It is not clear for me, how they come to conclusion in the last paragraph that PCN was issued correctly.

My questions for you:

1. Are they right?

2. Can you call kerb or footway which is lowered but is still 90 mm high from carriageway as a footway which meet the level of the carriageway in the view of Traffic Management Act (2004) ?

I am Polish and maybe I could not understood right that Act (2004) mention above.

3. Should I carry on with the Appeals process?

 

 

I'd really appreciate any help anyone can give.

 

Thanks.

Greg

pict_11.jpg

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Do you have the other photos that you sent to the council so we can see all the information you sent to them here.

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pict 1 (send before): Green arrow point to the place where is "dropped footway", other side of road is view of clear visible dropped fotway

pict 2: View of "dropped footway" as one can approach that place. I could not spot the “dropped footway”

Pict 3: 4 meters before "dropped footway" kerb is drop much more then along "droped footway"

 

 

And last 2 pictures are made by council.

From pictures made by council you can see clear that PCN was issued correctly, but this is It - it is depend from the point of view,

 

if one will stand on the other side of road and look at that dropped footway, can very clear see the drop. (this is the point where council made pictures)

My point is that { margin: 2cm } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } -->When I drove to park my car I could not see any dropped footway. To understand that situation you need to know that that road is not level. The middle of the road is the highest point,

when they lay new asphalt, on my side of the road ("dropped footway") they finish about 20 cm (8 in) from the kerb (footway) - That why the footway does not meet carriageway. On the other side of the road they lay new asphalt right to the kerb so the difference beetwen kerb and carriageway is only 10mm (0.5 in). you can see this on pict1.(send with this post, higher resolution)

 

To recapitulate on that "dropped footway":

1. I parked there,

2. there is drop small but it is,

3. footway is about 90 mm higher then road close to the kerb, on the other side of the road footway is 10 mm higher then road. -

 

 

If somebody like to see that place, please paste that 51.479306,-0.339544 into maps.google.co.uk

Thanks,

Greg

pict2.jpg

pict3.jpg

council1.JPG

council2.JPG

pict_1.jpg

Edited by kolosus

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Looking at the Council pics and Google the drop kerb is pretty clear.

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Having looked at the street view via google I do not think a contravention occurred.

 

I do not believe it is a dropped footway but more a sunken one.

 

Even if it was a dropped footway it does not look like that it has been dropped to assist pedestrians as there is no corresponding dropped footway and the position is a dangerous crossing point. It is not to assist cyclists as there does not appear to be any cycle track/path and it is not to assist vehicles leaving the carriageway unless it's to assist somebody attempting to commit suicide.

 

I would be surprised if an adjudiactor ruled against you.

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Having looked at the street view via google I do not think a contravention occurred.

 

I do not believe it is a dropped footway but more a sunken one.

 

Even if it was a dropped footway it does not look like that it has been dropped to assist pedestrians as there is no corresponding dropped footway and the position is a dangerous crossing point. It is not to assist cyclists as there does not appear to be any cycle track/path and it is not to assist vehicles leaving the carriageway unless it's to assist somebody attempting to commit suicide.

 

I would be surprised if an adjudiactor ruled against you.

 

There is a crossing point opposite just to the left of the notice board/sign although both are hard to see using google.

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There is a crossing point opposite just to the left of the notice board/sign although both are hard to see using google.

 

yes there is a dip in the kerb (had to squint hard to spot it) but I still find it hard to believe an adjudicator would view it as a formal crossing point in line with the TMA. It is the location that gives me doubts because it would make more sense to have a crossing to assist pedestrians and invalid carriages in the more narrow part of the road only a few more meteres away and if that spot is a formal crossing point then you would at least expect there to be an island to assist in the safe crossing as it is very wide and on a dangerous junction. I would not cross there.

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it is very wide and on a dangerous junction. I would not cross there.

 

No, really??

 

But you're happy for the OP to park there and make the situation even worse for pedestrians??:confused:

 

Regardless of dropped crossings, the Highway Code states that you should not park within 10 metres of a junction.


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Regardless of dropped crossings, the Highway Code states that you should not park within 10 metres of a junction.

 

You are correct on that point. However, that is not what the OP is being accused of, so isn't relevant to any possible appeal by the OP.

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You are correct on that point. However, that is not what the OP is being accused of, so isn't relevant to any possible appeal by the OP.

 

Neither is there any relevance if its safe to cross or not so the original comment was just as pointless. If its a drop kerb its a drop kerb whether its safe to use or not, is not down to the driver to decide when blocking it.

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No, really??

 

But you're happy for the OP to park there and make the situation even worse for pedestrians??:confused:

 

Regardless of dropped crossings, the Highway Code states that you should not park within 10 metres of a junction.

 

Whether I'm happy or not does not matter and has not been declared, what matters is whether parking in that location is a contravention under section 86 of the TMA 2004 and this is what is being discussed. If it's not a contravention then the OP and anybody else is legally entitled to park in that spot and if it is then the OP should suffer the consequence of his actions.

 

The highway code can say what it likes but if there is no law preventing parking in specific locations then you cannot penalise people for doing so. If you feel strongly about this then contact the relevant highway dept and advise them of your concerns and hopefully they will install a pedestrian crossing. That would be more productive than futile sarcasm.

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Just for once, let's keep the sarcasm and snide comments to ourselves, shall we?

It doesn't help the OP in any way.

 

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Looking at the Council pics and Google the drop kerb is pretty clear.

 

Yes it is

I do not question that,

what I question is that the dropped kerb does not meet carriageway level.

Then it should not be called “dropped footway” in the view of The Traffic Management Act (2004).

As I am Polish and do not know english language enough, I do not know if the sentence 'meet the level of the carriageway' can be used to describe footway which is about 90 mm high from carriageway.

if it can then I have to pay tomorrow.

If not where is the border in calling dropped kerb a “dropped footway”, in other words how high can be dropped footway? (20 mm?, 50mm?, 150mm? or maybe 250mm it will still meet the level of the carriageway?)

I think the Traffic Management Act (2004) do not state that clear enough.

Thanks Greg

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Looking at the Council pics and Google the drop kerb is pretty clear.

Yes from that pictures yes, but when i seat in the driver seat the drop kerb was not clear at all. Specialy when you compare this one to that one from other side of the road whcich is proper one.

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Yes it is

I do not question that,

what I question is that the dropped kerb does not meet carriageway level.

 

 

 

Then it should not be called “dropped footway” in the view of The Traffic Management Act (2004).

 

As I am Polish and do not know english language enough, I do not know if the sentence 'meet the level of the carriageway' can be used to describe footway which is about 90 mm high from carriageway.

 

 

if it can then I have to pay tomorrow.

 

If not where is the border in calling dropped kerb a “dropped footway”, in other words how high can be dropped footway? (20 mm?, 50mm?, 150mm? or maybe 250mm it will still meet the level of the carriageway?)

 

 

 

I think the Traffic Management Act (2004) do not state that clear enough.

 

 

Thanks Greg

 

 

You have two options

 

accept that it is intended as a drop kerb although it does not meet exactly the level of the footway and pay

 

or

 

argue that on a technicality you should not have to pay with an adjudicator

 

 

the choice is yours we cannot decide.

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If not where is the border in calling dropped kerb a “dropped footway”, in other words how high can be dropped footway? (20 mm?, 50mm?, 150mm? or maybe 250mm it will still meet the level of the carriageway?)

 

I don't believe that you will find the design guidance for dropped kerbs in the Traffic Management Act.

 

A "new" kerb upstand will be 125mm when installed allowing for a later 25mm overlay of the road. It appears to be old pennant kerbs in the photo which would probably have only had a 100mm upstand to begin with.

 

Standard design practice used to be that a typical footway crossing should not exceed 15mm and a vehicle crossinging 25mm. However, best practice is now that footway crossings are installed flush with the carraigeway (i.e. 0 mm).

 

An "ideal" dropped crossing is outlined here as an example...

external environments - dropped kerb detail for pedestrian crossings inserted into an existing footway where it is not possible to achieve recommended layout

 

5_4a.gif

 

Also, look at drawing 1026.1 below which is from

 

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002

 

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002

 

023113bg.gif


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I would be challenging based on the following:

 

a) The general topography of the carriageway and footway does not clearly indicate the presence of a dropped crossing at the specified location.

 

b) The crossing point is neither flush with the carriageway nor are there obvious tapers to a full height kerb upstand as one would reasonably expect to find at a pedestrian crossing point.

 

c) Despite the obvious design flaws stated in (b), no discretionary road markings have been applied to emphasise the presence of the "alleged" dropped crossing as permitted by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (Drawing 1026.1).

 

d) Due to the extremely wide mouth of the junction, one would reasonably expect to find a central refuge island installed if the local Highway Authority were actively encouraging pedestrians to cross at this location. No such refuge exists.

 

e) Routine safety inspections undertaken by the local Highway Authority should have identified and rectified the above defects, but have clearly failed to do so.

 

EDIT: You might also want to add that there is no tactile paving at the crossing point which would again, indicate the presence of such.

Edited by WelshMam2009

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

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I compliment you on this post it is superb and I apologise if my earlier post appeared snide, that was not my intention. If these points were made to an adjudicator I would be very surprised if they did not agree but there are no guarantees.

 

I would be challenging based on the following:

 

a) The general topography of the carriageway and footway does not clearly indicate the presence of a dropped crossing at the specified location.

 

b) The crossing point is neither flush with the carriageway nor are there obvious tapers to a full height kerb upstand as one would reasonably expect to find at a pedestrian crossing point.

 

c) Despite the obvious design flaws stated in (b), no discretionary road markings have been applied to emphasise the presence of the "alleged" dropped crossing as permitted by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (Drawing 1026.1).

 

d) Due to the extremely wide mouth of the junction, one would reasonably expect to find a central refuge island installed if the local Highway Authority were actively encouraging pedestrians to cross at this location. No such refuge exists.

 

e) Routine safety inspections undertaken by the local Highway Authority should have identified and rectified the above defects, but have clearly failed to do so.

 

EDIT: You might also want to add that there is no tactile paving at the crossing point which would again, indicate the presence of such.

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Thank you very much for everybody for suggestions and informations. :)

 

I've got few comments, i will put myself in council foot for a moment then:

 

I would be challenging based on the following:

 

a) The general topography of the carriageway and footway does not clearly indicate the presence of a dropped crossing at the specified location.

 

It is the driver's responsibility to ensure when parking their vehicle it is parked legally and correctly at all times. (council response letter).

 

b) The crossing point is neither flush with the carriageway nor are there obvious tapers to a full height kerb upstand as one would reasonably expect to find at a pedestrian crossing point.

 

that is good one, I'm not sure only about the tapers, from what i remember their are ok.

 

c) Despite the obvious design flaws stated in (b), no discretionary road markings have been applied to emphasise the presence of the "alleged" dropped crossing as permitted by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (Drawing 1026.1).

 

There is no requirement for any signs indicating this restriction. (council answer letter)

 

d) Due to the extremely wide mouth of the junction, one would reasonably expect to find a central refuge island installed if the local Highway Authority were actively encouraging pedestrians to cross at this location. No such refuge exists.

 

e) Routine safety inspections undertaken by the local Highway Authority should have identified and rectified the above defects, but have clearly failed to do so.

 

Can help with Adjudicator.

 

EDIT: You might also want to add that there is no tactile paving at the crossing point which would again, indicate the presence of such.

There is no requirement for any signs indicating this restriction. (council answer letter).

 

 

Can you look at last paragraph from the council letter :

Please note within this contravertion the carriageway can be raised to meet the kerb as noted above, therefore the Penalty Charge Notice was issued correctly.

Is it mean in future can be raised to meet the kerb? If yes that mean they accept that at the moment the kerb does not meet street level.

 

In case I decide to carry on with Appeals on which grounds I should make representations against notice to owner?

the ground which are in

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 No. 3482

does not seems right in my case.

 

Thank you

Greg

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