How can Papal justify making Ebay buyers return faulty goods at their own expense

[Jan18]

I recently won an Ebay auction for £0.99 + £5.27 P&P and paid through Paypal.

When the item arrived I found that it did not work even though the auction listing described it as being in perfect working condition.

I contacted the seller but all he would offer me was a refund of the auction bid price of £0.99 but not the P&P charge of £5.27.

I rejected this offer and opened a dispute through the Paypal 'Buyer Protection' service.

The seller still refuses to refund the original P&P charges and I have now said I will escalate the dispute to a claim. This should result in Paypal refunding me the whole amount I originally paid the seller including P&P. However Paypal have informed me that they will insist on me returning the faulty item to the seller before they will hand over the refund. They also say that I will have to stand the cost of the return postage + pay for a tracking service which can be viewed on line showing a receipt signature.

 

If I return the faulty item to the seller I will be £5.27 out of pocket through no fault of my own.

 

By what rights do Paypal have the authority to make an innocent buyer of faulty goods pay for the return of those goods to the seller.

 

Jan

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

Its a fair comment. Will move your thread.

[dx100uk]

use chargeback on your card

then inform paypal and the seller that you will not return the item till postage is forwarded.

i've done that twice now with traders in hong konk and china pretending to be in the uk and still have the goods and never been chased.

 

dx

[gyzmo]

Alas, goods bought on auction are exempt from the Distance Selling Regs, which means the requirement for the seller to pay postage costs when returned do not apply.

[buzby]

If you do a chargeback, you'll be in the wrong. Paypal was the intermediary, not the seller (as I'm sure you know). Assuming your bank permits the chargeback (and many know not to) you will actually owe Paypal the full amount, and then be hassled by a DCA. Additionally, you can kiss your PAyPal account goodbye too. Is it worth it?

[hightail]

Chances are it will not cost you £5.27 or anywhere near it to return the goods. You may be able to send second class recorded and it's likely to be a fair bit less than the seller charged you.

[My Real Name]

Alas, goods bought on auction are exempt from the Distance Selling Regs, which means the requirement for the seller to pay postage costs when returned do not apply.

Unless it was a Buy It Now auction, or the seller was selling in the course of being a business, surely?

[gyzmo]

Buy it now does not count as an auction, so the DSRs DO apply to them.

If it is an auction, it does not matter whether or not the seller is a private individual or a business - DRSs do not apply.

[heliosfa]

Buy it now does not count as an auction, so the DSRs DO apply to them.

If it is an auction, it does not matter whether or not the seller is a private individual or a business - DRSs do not apply.

 

No, but SOGA and other associated regulations DO apply which permit "damages".

 

Also, rejecting goods for being faulty is you rescinding the contract because of a breach by them and you must be put back in the position you were prior to the contract, so not being out of pocket.

 

In law, you should get ALL postage back. In practice, Paypal/Seller/etc. try and swindle you out of anything they can.

 

H

[gyzmo]

It depends on the contract. And with auctions, even other rights are reduced.

[Bookworm]

But e-bay are NOT an auction site, they are a "facilitator between seller and buyer". Even though the word "auction" is used, the rules of sale by auction do NOT apply to e-bay. ;-)

[gyzmo]

The OFT's guidance though classifies it as an auction and provides guidance on what an auction is. It specifically uses the example that "buy it now" is not classed as an auction.

 

Would like to see anything that can be used though to get out of the auction thing!

[Bookworm]

eBay not an auction house says German court ? The Register

 

In the UK, eBay flags the directive on its policies page, warning sellers that their goods might be covered by the act.

 

eBay UK: Help : Topics : Policies and Guidelines : Distance Selling Regulations

 

and of course:

 

About eBay

 

eBay is The World's Online Marketplace®, enabling trade on a local, national and international basis. With a diverse and passionate community of individuals and small businesses, eBay offers an online platform where millions of items are traded each day

and note

eBay Worldwide that they never once use the word "auction"... ;-)

[gyzmo]

Interesting. The reason for what I said is as follows (from OFT guidance on DSRs):

 

What is an auction?

2.16 Whether something is an auction depends on how the selling

process occurs and whether the contract is concluded at an auction.

An auction has no statutory definition but is generally held to be a

manner of selling property by bids, usually to the highest bidder, by

public competition, and has a number of characteristics, including:

n a unique item or collection of items for sale

n each bid being an offer to buy

n the auction ending in a pre-arranged manner, such as on the fall of

a hammer or the expiry of a deadline, after which bids are no

longer accepted, and

n the winning bidder being bound by contract to pay for the items.

2.17 How a contract is concluded determines whether the method of sale

is an auction and so falls outside the DSRs. Fixed price sales,

including ‘buy it now’ type transactions on internet auction sites,

are covered by the DSRs because such sales are not concluded by

auction.

 

I am more than happy to stand corrected on this one

[heliosfa]

Interesting. The reason for what I said is as follows (from OFT guidance on DSRs):

 

What is an auction?

2.16 Whether something is an auction depends on how the selling

process occurs and whether the contract is concluded at an auction.

An auction has no statutory definition but is generally held to be a

manner of selling property by bids, usually to the highest bidder, by

public competition, and has a number of characteristics, including:

n a unique item or collection of items for sale

n each bid being an offer to buy

n the auction ending in a pre-arranged manner, such as on the fall of

a hammer or the expiry of a deadline, after which bids are no

longer accepted, and

n the winning bidder being bound by contract to pay for the items.

2.17 How a contract is concluded determines whether the method of sale

is an auction and so falls outside the DSRs. Fixed price sales,

including ‘buy it now’ type transactions on internet auction sites,

are covered by the DSRs because such sales are not concluded by

auction.

 

I am more than happy to stand corrected on this one

 

Even if it is an "auction", faulty goods would not conform to contract and as such Damages would be claimable. Such damages would be the cost of returning the goods to the "seller" as the seller has effectively breached contract.

 

H

[andydd]

If you do a chargeback, you'll be in the wrong. Paypal was the intermediary, not the seller (as I'm sure you know). Assuming your bank permits the chargeback (and many know not to) you will actually owe Paypal the full amount, and then be hassled by a DCA. Additionally, you can kiss your PAyPal account goodbye too. Is it worth it?

 

Well for a few quid, no its not worth it BUT for a larger amount I'd say YES, just open another account, and be prepared to ignore the DCA's..its hassle but Paypal T&C's are a mess and they are impossible to deal with.

 

Andy

[andydd]

Isn't there a new addition to Ebays T&C's to overcome this problem..i.e..selling goods for 1p but the postage is something silly like £10 for a small envelope. ?

 

Andy

[aj84]

I know ebay have changed things in their postage in terms of sellers NOT being able to charge more than the item "should" be.

 

Now this raises many issues. For example, I am a powerseller who does sell a hell of a lot but I do charge postage more than how much it would cost me at the PO. Why? Because >III

 

This however is not possible - again, as an example - I sold a £500 phone the other night. Spent a long time packing it because of the value and ensured it was well secured.

On going to the PO, I was told it would cost around £10.

Problem was, Ebay would allow only a maximum of £7 for the item.

 

Obviously a number of us have found a "workaround" on this so it did not affect me but 99% will be affected in the same way.

 

 

As for the main topic of this thread - I am affected by this in a massive way.

I buy MANY mobile phone components but this month, I have had nothing but faulty or incorrect items.

Example: I have bought around 10 flex ribbons for a model (c905) in which 8 were faulty. This ribbons cost around £13 including postage per ribbon!

I also bought 5 LG KG800 keypads which worked perfectly only that they were for the asian market and the buttons were reversed.

 

In both instances, I had to send back again spending MY time, and MY money including packaging to post back recorded.

 

In total, June has cost me around £20 for postage.

 

What have I done as a result?

 

I have become VERY harsh on sellers who sell me faulty goods. I don't care what their excuse is - if the item is faulty, I will give THEM a chance to pay for postage back OR replace the item without wanting the item back and I will dispose of it.

 

IF they fail to pay or at the very least, meet me halfway (discount me on further purchases), I >WILL

 

 

One off I dont mind but as I said, I have recieved a hell of a lot of faulty items this month and am fed up of having to pay for postage back.