Nationwide Vs Carolan78

[carolan78]

Hello all I have recieved a county court paper today from Nationwide they are taking me to court for an outstanding balance on my account...this is all made up of bank charges. They closed my account because I refused to pay anymore charges as I have already paid them roughly £2000 and it was spiralling out of control. I couldn't get the account back in the red because they were constantly adding yet more charges. I was on benefits when all this occured if that helps at all.

 

Now I have this county court claim to fill in asking if I admit to the amount claimed, I am planning on filling in the acknowledgement section this then gives me 28 days from the date of service (is this the issue date?) to file a defence. I have a few questions.

 

1) I need to send a subject access request to Nationwide in order to file my defence will I have time or will I be able to get the 28 days extended.

 

2) Can I counterclaim and claim all the bank charges I have already paid back?

 

Thanks for reading any help aprieciated

[BankFodder]

This is excellent news. The fact that NW have made a charges claim against you puts you in an exellent position.

 

Yes, fill in the acknowledgment and put in the SAR without any delay.

 

We will help you frame a defence and also counterclaim everhything they have ever taken from you.

 

Have they placed any defaults on your credit file?

[carolan78]

I am assuming they have but don't have any form of credit/debit card to check my file :/ No default notice has arrived though, I haven't even recieved an account saying they were closing my account down, I just stopped using it and transfered all payments and direct debits into another account.

 

I have had letters off DCA's who I stupidly contacted via telephone reiterating the debt is solely made up of unlawful charges and they have then stopped getting in touch. I haven't heard anything for over 6 months.

[carolan78]

I will post both SAR and the acknowledgement first thing Monday morning..the SAR will go special delivery should I do the same with the acknowledgment?

[BankFodder]

Was the claim issued out of Northampton?

[carolan78]

Yes on the 19th June sols are Brian Carter

[BankFodder]

In that case it is probably a MoneyClaim on line claim and you should be able to acknowledge it over the internet.

 

Check your credit file immediately.

How far back does your account with them go?

[BankFodder]

Incidentally, you should word your SAR very generally.

[carolan78]

The account was opened 7 or 8 years ago going to write my subject acces request now will post it up before printing to make sure its ok. I will try get a credit report asap.

[BankFodder]

SAR is very easy.

 

Just ask for all personal data they hold on you in any form on any matter and for any period.

 

At the end of the 28 days - allow 25 for a saftey margin- and then file the defence.

 

Tell us what their POC says but generally your defence will be that the alleged debt is denied.

If there is any debt then it is comprised wholly of unfair bank charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in consumer Contracts Regs 1999.

 

Then you will go on to make your counterclaim.

 

Have you evidence of any charges at all or do you need all of your statements?

If you know some of your charges then you should claim those and then reserve the right to amend to include further charges once the claimant has satisfied your SAR dated XXXdateXXX.

 

If they have defaulted you then we can ask for the removal of that as well.

 

I think that we can try to ask for the claim not to be stayed as the claimants are fully aware that this is a bank charges matter and yet they have sought to bring the claim.

 

When you calculate your charges make sure that you include any interest which they have charged you on the charges. This will include any interest they have charged you on an overdraft - even if the overdraft is within your agreed limit - because as it is they who owe you the money, you are not really overdrawn, - but for your charges you would be in the black and so you should not be paying interest to borrow your own money.

 

Let us know about the credit file.

[carolan78]

for the full amount I would need the statements for the last 6 years but an apox figure of £1000 is under estimating so I am happy to use that and then add any further amount to it at a later date.

[BankFodder]

Can you tell us a bit more about what they are claiming. The POC refers to agreed installments

[BankFodder]

Incidentally make sure that you claim everything back to the beginning of the account.

Don't worry about the 6 yrs

[carolan78]

I have no idea what they are referring to as per the agreed installment...I have never agreed to anything as far as I am aware, so i am unsure what they mean.

 

It would probably still be about the same amount even with 8 years of charges it wasn't until 2006 it all snowballed out of control.

[carolan78]

Just thought back I did recieve a payment card from a DCA with proposed installments, I ignored it from what I can remember...will the subject access request include all of this?

 

Sorry my memory is so sketchy I had a tiny baby when all this started and by the time DCA letters started arriving I had a toddler and newborn to deal with too so didn't pay it the attention I probably should have.

[BankFodder]

Did they send you any kind of default or payment notice.

Yes, the SAR should produce all of this

[carolan78]

No at no time do I recall a default notice been sent to me, just statements (with charges for the following month on the back page), letters informing me I was overdraw (unauthorised) and then DCA letters.

 

The account was a basic flex account with no credit facilities or debit card, if this helps at all.

[carolan78]

SAR Request letter

 

I am writing to request a copy of all information over the last six years associated with me. The information required should include, but not be limited to:

• any document sent by you to me,

• any document sent by you to a third party,

• any document sent by a third party to you,

• any bank statements issued to me

• any information you hold regarding charges to the account

Please find enclosed a fee of £10 for the maximum statutory charge.

If you store any of the information on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form.

I look forward to your response within 40 days, as you are obliged to reply under the Data Protection Act. If not I shall seek remedy from the Information Commissioner.

Edited June 22, 2009 by carolan78

[carolan78]

Acknowledgment sent (just using this to keep track)

[BankFodder]

Great. Could you replace the SAR above with the one you actually sent.

[MilkTrayMan]

Hi carolan78!

 

...Have they placed any defaults on your credit file?

 

I am assuming they have but don't have any form of credit/debit card to check my file...

Here is a link to the Experian webpage where it explains how to go about sending them the statutory £2 fee and getting a one-off copy of your Credit File held by them by post.

 

 

 

 

 

...No default notice has arrived though, I haven't even recieved an account saying they were closing my account down, I just stopped using it and transfered all payments and direct debits into another account.

Although you haven't specifically mentioned that your NEW current account is with another 'bank' carolan78, it can only be assumed that it is?

I say this because banks have to right to debit money from one account to offset an alleged debt accrued in another account that a person has with that same bank.

 

Some banks have even been known to secretly open and run 'shadow' accounts that people are unaware of, even if a person assumes that an account has been closed.

The following link is an example of such, that an old friend of mine is admirably and tenaciously getting to the bottom of to his credit.

 

walton v rbos

 

 

 

 

 

...I have had letters off DCA's who I stupidly contacted via telephone reiterating the debt is solely made up of unlawful charges and they have then stopped getting in touch. I haven't heard anything for over 6 months.

 

No at no time do I recall a default notice been sent to me, just statements (with charges for the following month on the back page), letters informing me I was overdraw (unauthorised) and then DCA letters.

Which DCA's have you received letters from?

Nationwide tend to initially use their own 'in-house' DCA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The account was a basic flex account with no credit facilities or debit card, if this helps at all.

As someone who still has a Nationwide basic flexaccount, even after 3yrs since falling foul of a unilaterally and unexpectedly cancelled Authorised O/D on an all singing and dancing Debit Card flexaccount at the time, I wasn't aware that it was possible to be 'allowed' to go overdrawn.

 

Although you would be the Defendant in your particular case carolan78, the following Thread contains some further links which you may also find useful...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/93981-caroline-nationwide.html

 

 

 

 

[carolan78]

Thank you Milk Tray man yes I do bank elsewhere now. I wasn't aware this account could ever go into arrears either but I guess its ok for it to be in negative figures if it is their charges they are taking.

 

Not sure which debt collectors it was I haven't heard a thing since my little boy was tiny and he is now 18 months old. Will go have a look at your links.

[carolan78]

Just a quick update got a letter yesterday saying Nationwide have recived my subject access request and payment...so it's a waiting game for that now. I have a feeling I will be filing a defence without it!

[carolan78]

Recieved another letter saying they can't send info to my address due to no trace...all mail has arrived as far as I am aware so did their court papers! Will get them to send it to a local branch instead, seriously doubt it will arrive in time for my defence now lol

[carolan78]

I have drafted a reply to Nationwides Data protection team. Hope this shows them I will fight them all the way

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter 01st July 2009 informing me your unable to make your data disclosure to my account address.

 

There is absolutely no reason why you should not be able to do this. You have succeeded in sending me an acknowledgment at this address, your solicitors have managed to send a county court claim at this address and I consider that you are simply attempting to obstruct my data request and to avoid your statutory obligations in order to frustrate my likely defence and counter claim to your court action against me.

 

Further more I have become aware you have sent similar no trace letters to other Nationwide customers who have requested data disclosures from you and who you are suing in the County Court. It is clear that your no trace letters are merely a tactic.

 

If you feel that you are no longer able to trust your systems or the post in the way that you clearly have done in all other correspondence to me then I think it is up to you to use some private courier system at your expense.

 

Please note that if there are any delays in providing me with my data disclosure then on the first occasion I shall apply to the court for an adjournment on the grounds that you are in breach of your statutory duties and if you continue then on the second occasion I will simply ask the court to order you to complete the data disclosure and also to pay my costs for that application.

I shall also produce to the court “no trace” letters which other customers have also received and I am sure the court will be struck by the remarkable convince that when you sue your customers and they ask for data disclosures that you routinely send out no trace letters in order to provide obsacals to their legitimate data disclosure requests.

 

Regards

Edited July 8, 2009 by carolan78