Rizel23 Vs Barclaycard

[rizel23]

Rizel23 Vs Barclaycard

 

Seems there on the ball at Barclays, only posted off to them Thursday!

 

Can anyone please advise on letter to post next so i can get in post first thing Monday? thanks

 

Heres what they replied with:

 

http://i41.tinypic.com/np2t1w.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/o5qj4o.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/a5kkt1.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/18naqf.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/r0tvn4.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/8xllkw.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/15xmtg4.jpg

Edited June 19, 2009 by rizel23
sperate threds needed

[diamondgirl]

Have I missed something no T&Cs 6 to 13?

 

DG:)

 

Ok I see it now.

Edited June 6, 2009 by diamondgirl
added to

[rizel23]

Rizel23 Vs Barclaycard

 

 

but why have they just send me photocopies of some terms and conditions with none of my details anywhere on them?

Edited June 19, 2009 by rizel23
seperate threads needed

[cymruambyth]

Have I missed something, or have they failed to send you a copy of the actual agreement that you allegedly signed?

[rizel23]

Rizel23 Vs Barclaycard

 

Have I missed something, or have they failed to send you a copy of the actual agreement that you allegedly signed?

 

that is what i requested, from the letter DG posted, but they seem to have just sent t&cs that o presume could you pick up from any application form for a credit card and could relate to anyone!

 

What sort of letter should i send them now? Thanks

 

P.S Sorry for large images, i thought i was being good making sure they where big enough but there massive!

Edited June 19, 2009 by rizel23
seperate threads

[rizel23]

Could anyone please advise on the above? thanks

[cymruambyth]

Hiyou could send a variation of this letter. http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/582-possible-letter-when-a-questionable-agreementapplication-is-sent

I'll see if I have another letter.

C

[rizel23]

many thanks cymruambyth i'm just confused as to why they just sent some photocopied t&cs to me within 2 days of me only posting a letter off to them!

[cymruambyth]

Hi this is a letter I was advised to send when I received an application form and current t&cs. You could adapt it to suit.

Thank you for your letter of XXXX, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form and Monument’s current Terms and Conditions. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows:

Section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly:

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document, the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[rizel23]

Rizel23 Vs Barclaycard

 

Barclaycard still won't send me a a true copy, just this letter and another photocopy of some T&C's.

 

Can anyone please advise on what to send next, this is what they sent me today, are they just talking rubbish to delay me?

 

 

http://i43.tinypic.com/243namr.jpg

 

http://i41.tinypic.com/2i6k92.jpg

 

http://i44.tinypic.com/b6o6ko.jpg

Edited June 19, 2009 by rizel23
seperate threads

[rizel23]

Rizel23 vs Barclaycard

 

should i just send a SAR now? I'm pretty confused as to why they kick up such a fuss about not sending what documents i requested!

Edited June 19, 2009 by rizel23

[cymruambyth]

should i just send a SAR now? I'm pretty confused as to why they kick up such a fuss about not sending what documents i requested!

 

Some cynics would say they are trying to confuse because they don't have the document!!

[rizel23]

Rizel23 vs Barclaycard

 

so what would you recommend cymruambyth, send a SAR and just wait? thanks

Edited June 19, 2009 by rizel23

[cymruambyth]

I'm sorry but I am now only guessing as to the corect answer! If you do send a SAR then they are obliged to send all the information that thyey hold on you. This will also give you details of any illegal charges and dates that documents have been sent.

[saintly_1]

posts moved to a thread of their own

[rizel23]

right, Barclays are not playing ball, so to hopfully get to the end of this should i send this letter:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

i shall amend slightly to show my disprovement at them for not replying with relevent information i requested, would that be OK?

[diddydicky]

right, Barclays are not playing ball, so to hopfully get to the end of this should i send this letter:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

i shall amend slightly to show my disprovement at them for not replying with relevent information i requested, would that be OK?

 

personally rizel- i would not send a SAR at this stage - it wil cost you a tenn er and you might need to do one at a later stage for more updated information

 

did you send both the other letters recorded?

 

if so send one more (recorded) short and sweet

 

dear sirs

 

thank you for your letter of XXXXXX i note that you still fail to comply with your obligations under s78 of the consumer credit act and that you remain in default

 

I will not answer any further correspondence until such time as you comply

 

Y F

 

 

you really do not need to keep responding and asking for the same thing

 

if you get a letter from a dca or solicitor then semply send the bemused letter

 

don't talk to them on the phone (get yourself a TRUECALL if calls become a nuisance)

[rizel23]

thanks for the reply diddydicky, every thing has gone recorded yes.

 

I'm a bit concerned though as they say in their last letter they have complied to my request? If i do send a SAR then at least i would get to the bottom of if they do have a CCA on this account, it could be that they simply can't be arsed to find it and send out standard replies? thanks

[diddydicky]

thanks for the reply diddydicky, every thing has gone recorded yes.

 

I'm a bit concerned though as they say in their last letter they have complied to my request? If i do send a SAR then at least i would get to the bottom of if they do have a CCA on this account, it could be that they simply can't be arsed to find it and send out standard replies? thanks

 

the whole thing with s78 compliance is a grey area with the creditors interpreting what constitutes compliance with a lilly livered OFT sitting on the fence

 

in a nutshell you are seeking to establish exactly WHAT contract you entered into with the creditor

 

 

this means that the documents received must be easily legible and must refer to YOU (anyone can send a blank set of t & C's)

 

the LATEST terms and conditions are of no use if they creditor cannot also show you a copy of the original agreement containing a term where you agreed to say that they could change the T & C's

 

the orginal agreement you signed must contain the prescribed terms within its four corners

 

anything (alleged to have been) on the back of the signature sheet or other pages must be shown on that original sheet to be part of the same document.

 

Now then IF you are sure (as a right thinking person) that they have not supplied what they are supposed to- you simply stick to your guns (just as they do) and say that have NOT complied

 

you only need counter their arguments a couple of times and ignore them if they keep repeating the same drivel over and over

 

its a battle of wills!

[rizel23]

thanks diddydicky, that's exactly how i'm, thinking yes. Sending some photocopied T&Cs is of no use to me if i believe the originally credit agreement was floored.

 

Letters going off tomorrow, still going to send a SAR and make a complaint to OFA to cover my back.

[diddydicky]

thanks diddydicky, that's exactly how i'm, thinking yes. Sending some photocopied T&Cs is of no use to me if i believe the originally credit agreement was floored.

 

Letters going off tomorrow, still going to send a SAR and make a complaint to OFA to cover my back.

 

well it's up to you but it is 99.9% certain that the SAR will not get the agreement from barclays and you will have wasted 10 quid and also wet some of your powder!

 

better to wait until DN's and TN's have (or have not as the case may be) before using your sar request IMO

[rizel23]

haveing read some other post seems SAR could well be a waste of money, but will also give me chance to see any charges they have applied and if taken further, would aid towards defense that i did everything in my power to get a CCA off them.

 

What would be the benefit of waiting to send off a SAR untill DNs & TN's get involved? Balance is only £800 & i would mybeable able to come to a settlement if they could not produce a CCA and were honest about it.

[diddydicky]

haveing read some other post seems SAR could well be a waste of money, but will also give me chance to see any charges they have applied and if taken further, would aid towards defense that i did everything in my power to get a CCA off them.

 

What would be the benefit of waiting to send off a SAR untill DNs & TN's get involved? Balance is only £800 & i would mybeable able to come to a settlement if they could not produce a CCA and were honest about it.

 

well as i said personally i would wait - there is no urgency for the information at the moment

 

as you are so close in monetary terms i would send a payment to reduce the O/s balance to 749 before you receive the cca back

[rizel23]

well the date to receive back CCA of 12+2 days is tomorrow, so i was going to stop all payments, is there a specific reason why i should lower the balance to £749? thanks

[diddydicky]

well the date to receive back CCA of 12+2 days is tomorrow, so i was going to stop all payments, is there a specific reason why i should lower the balance to £749? thanks

 

yes- its a very long outside chance but some DCA's like to use statutory demands to put the frighteners on people

 

cant do it for a debt under 750