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Fishwife72

unenforceable CCA- how to get started?

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I would like some assistance if possible as to a suitable letter to send to obtain copies of the original cca on a number of cards and loans. I believe I need to send a cheque or postal order for £1 to each company along with this request.

 

This is all new to me and any help would be greatfully appreciated.

Thanks


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hi and welcome to cag:)

 

click on the blue DCA

 

send number 8

 

do not sign

 

send recorded

 

postal order for £1

 

good luck

 

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER


SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER.

 

SO PROUD OF MY AVATAR,THAT TOOK ME WEEKS TO WORK OUT HOW TO GET ONE.:lol:

 

PLZ CLICK MY SCALES IF YOU LIKE WHAT I SAY.

OR IF I HAVE HELPED IN ANY WAY.:smile:

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Thanks,

 

I have now got a copy of one CCA from egg, would someone be kind enough to check this out and see of this is enforceable- dated december 2002. Also having now received this although outside of the twelve days, am i wise to recommence monthly payments FTB?:cool:

egg.jpg

egg2.jpg


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:rolleyes:FISHWIFE 72

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Its too small to read.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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hope this is easier to read, thanks

eggccah1.jpg

eggccah2.jpg


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:rolleyes:FISHWIFE 72

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ok so that didnt come any larger, any ideas?


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:rolleyes:FISHWIFE 72

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Hi,

 

Try this............

 

TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

 

Regards.

 

Scott.


 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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this is frustrating I cannot get the file to load large enough..AARRGGHH- hope this format works:???:

eggccah1.pdf

eggccah2.pdf


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:rolleyes:FISHWIFE 72

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Yep, readable now :)

 

Thread moved to the Egg Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.


 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Exactly same as my CCA, I have gone down the unenforceable route due to lack of prescribed terms (approved limit etc)

 

x:)x

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Thanks, Having received the CCA what is my next step- I seem to be very blonde about finding the appropriate letters on the site, Is there a letter I can send disputing the agreement as a next step?


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:rolleyes:FISHWIFE 72

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Hi,

 

You'll find one in here.......

 

The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

Regards.

 

Scott.


 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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thanks, is there a time limit I have to wait before writing a further chase, they are calling me about 6 times each day chasing payment and one of the call centre agents has confirmed my last letter was received but he couldnt see what the letter was concerning. How long should I wait before chasing and would I just send a further copy of the letter.


[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:rolleyes:FISHWIFE 72

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Not sure exactly sure what you mean by having to wait. If you have the CCA and its not enforceable as Texanbar points out, then there are loads of letters in the Egg section of this site that you can send them (just adapt as necessary). This is a good place to start as it sets out the original ideas - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html Get it done soon as.

As for the telephone calls, either include this with your letter disputing the enforceability of the agreement that they have sent you, or send it separately (I would probably do the latter, as too much detail at one time confuses them :p)

 

Dear Sirs

Harassment by telephone

COMPLAINT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE

 

Account Number: XXXXXXX

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Please treat this also as a formal complaint, and send me a copy of your company complaints procedure.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[NAME HERE] (type don't sign)

 

You can get a copy of this at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/letter-templates/131250-dca-creditor-harassment-telephone.html

 

DO THESE THINGS SOON! :-)

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Thank you, I have to say telling them I will be recording the call seems to get them off the phone pretty quickly but they have been rather persistant in calling. Have sent the letter.

 

I have started a similar process with MBNA who have sent me the CCA for one card stating it relates to another MBNA card I hold, I believe I should be starting a new thread for this but this doesnt seem to be an option..can anyone help?

:D Fishwife


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Just go to the MBNA posts under Consumer Forums and start a thread there. Ironically I am dealing with Egg and MBNA just now as well. They are rather different in how they will approach you (though the common feature is wanting your money) and you will need distinct advice - what might do the trick with Egg wont necessarily work with MBNA. :|

Good luck :)

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Thanks, managed to get a new thread to work for MBNA and now will be taking on a Santander (COMET PLC) who have confirmed in wiriting they do not appear to have a signed CCA on record!?!?!


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OK what happens next? I have an unenforceable CCA and have pointed this out to egg, Have sent a reasonably detailed letter listing all the reasons why unenforceable. I have also complained about the number of times each day Egg are calling me using the letter from here. They have written and acknowledged my complaint but I have heard nothing further and the calls keep coming.

 

What is my next action, Should I keep writing every month restating my issues with the agreement or just sit back and wait.

 

Also if they ignore my complaint, or continue to call, as they keep quoting that as I am behind in my payments they are entitled to call as many times each day as they like until the account is up to date, Is there further action I can take against them IE at what point would an OFT complaint or FOS complaint become appropriate.

 

I hope someone can guide me further I dont really want to just wait until they decide to deal with it I would rather like to force their hand somewhat.


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You have got to much the same place as me, which can often be unsatisfactory, but there are two things you need to bear in mind here.

 

  1. You have a CCA agreeement that you consider to be unenforceable, but they almost certainly wont agree with your judgement . Even if the only use for the document(s) they have sent is to wrap chips, they will NEVER say its unenforceable.I have one lot who sent me an application form (which I had signed) but with no sign of a single prescribed term, with a letter saying that this fulfilled my request and they intended to collect the debt.
  2. The other thing is that, assuming you are right, this makes the debt unenforceable in law, so they cant get an order from court (or its unlikely - there are horror stories you can find on here of people being taken to court with plainly unenforceable agreements, but the judge takes the view that there is a debt, so to hell with the law, to hell with the documents, just pay them!). So that route is at least much less certain for them.. But this doesnt make the debt disappear. The debt still exists, and they may consider that its wortwhile using other collection methods to get their money. Now as long as the debt is in legal dispute then according to various Codes of Practice, they should cease collection activity. But, again, you will see any number of stories on here of lenders writing to say that no matter what old tat they have sent as a result of a CCA request, they do not consider the account to be in dispute. In other words, no matter what rubbish they have sent, they think its ok, the account is not in dispute in their view, so they carry on with collection regardless, but may never go to Court to enforce it (because they know they would lose, or they consider the possibility of a precedent to be too great).

What to do - well you can complain to the Financial Ombudsman, the Financial Services Authority and Trading Standards. If they are REALLY at it you MIGHT get some support, but probably not. Even so, it might be worth going down those sorts of tracks, as, you might have seen that the "bad banks" in terms of complaints by customers has just come out (Citi were the worst). Its not that your individual complaint matters all that much - it just adds to the total effect.

Two other possibilities. Could you afford to offer them something token (start at 2 or 3%) as a full and final settlement. This might not seem like much, but if they cant collect from you, they are just going to sell it on and about as much as they are likley to get is 10%.

The other one, is to keep your head down, just keep telling them what is wrong with the documents they have sent, and hope they get bored/ the idea (whichever comes first).

The phone calls are more worrying. Quite often, if you are firm with them when on the phone (and generally its better not to talk to them) they do stop it , but if that doesnt work, then the letter you were recommended to suggest OFCOM and actually reporting them might be worthwhile. Or try sending the same letter to someone more senior (but get a name) and tell them that you are happy to deal with the matter by correspondence but you will not deal over the phone. Or, if its not too much hassle (and I appreciate that it can be) get a new phone number.

I appreciate that you want to force their hand. But its a bit like a gun fight - think John Wayne - its the guy who blinks first that loses. Dont write religiously to them every month - the only one who gains from this is the Post Office - just reply as and when they write. Who knows, they may eventually chuck it?

Edited by seriously fed up
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Thanks, your help is greatly appreciated.

 

I may well send a further letter to egg in a few weeks offering a payment of 5% in full and final settlement which I should be able to do with a xmas bonus (hey the kids didnt want presents anyway!!) I am very confident the agreement is unenforceable for all the usual reasons.

 

I think I am developing a warped sense of humour with this, I have adjusted my answerphone message to kick in after two rings and my smallest daughter simply says "hello" pauses about 5 seconds and says you know what to do leave your message (she is 4!)......On my return from work I am finding about 15 messages daily all thinking they are still talking to a small child not realising they are being recorded.

 

If there a sample letter available for making a without predujice offer and would you suggest making the offer now even though funds won't be available until late November?

 

Warped fishwife!!


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The following is a full and final letter put by Ida in Fife - you could adapt it to your circumstances. The parts in bold are, I think, particularly important - but you would need to make up your own mind on that:

Dear Eejits

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx, in which you have sent an unenforceable application rather than any properly executed agreement that may or may not exist in relaton to the above alleged account. (please see the included response).

 

I am currently paying £xx per month/week towards this account and unfortunatley due to a change of circumstancs of reduction of incoming monies I may have to reduce my payments to £1 per month in the next few months.

 

While admitting no liability for the account and the sum claimed as owing, I am willing to offer the sum of £xx as an ex-gratia payment in full and final settlement of the account.

 

This offer is made on the clear understanding that neither you nor any associate company will take any further action to attempt to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that any and all liability on our behalf will be fully discharged on receipt of the above stated monies.

This offer is made on the condition that of all adverse entries regarding this account are removed from our credit files with the credit reference agencies.

Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written confirmation of your agreement of this offer and the subsequent terms of the offer. Please also identify your prefered method of payment and the details of making said payment.

Please note that this is offer is available for a short period only as this is being offered by family members and if declined will be offered to another creditor. This offer will expire on (date - give them a couple of weeks) if no letter of unconditional acceptance is forthcoming and will not be repeated. This offer is not open to negotiation.

We look forward to receiving your reply.

 

Ida x

If you do do this, please let us know how you get on. I have already made similar - but less explicit - noises to them without reply.

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