CL Finance and old HSBC Card debt - no CCA - say they can still chase me!!

[master woody]

I requested my CCA from CL finance 3 weeks ago for a Credit card from HSBC and still nothing not even we have received your request letter. (sent recored)

I’m pay via DMP 55 quid a month for a debt of around 5k, thinking of asking for a full and final how much should I offer I was think of £600. I know many of you are going to say stop paying right away but I would like to clean up my credit file.

Can I complain to trading standards? As they haven’t complied with the request? What other pressure can I bring to bear?

[clemma]

Put the account into dispute first by sending the following letter. Then, if you still get no reply, you can try and offer full and final.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[master woody]

Thanks

 

nice letter, in the post tommorow:D:D

[master woody]

hi

 

CL have made no attempt to contact me! I'm not sure if i want to to stop paying yet but i think thats the only way to get their attention? or could i report them to TS? Could i try a formal compaint??

 

I've already beat these mupets in court once over a differnet account!

 

any help would be great

[postggj]

no cca

 

no debt

[diddydicky]

not quite correct

 

no cca - no ENFOREABLE debt

 

big difference

 

i would strongly suggest NOT offering a settlement

 

(after all you just denied the debt exists)

 

WAIT until they contact you

 

more likely it is they that will give you a load of codswallop as to the legitimacy of the debt and then offer to settle

 

 

 

NOW you can negotiate a settlement If you want to) on the strict understanding that you do not accept the debt but to as an ex gratia payment to be rid of them

 

i would start by saying that you have a family friend blah blah that will lend you some money and would offer a third or quarter of what they might suggest as a starting point

 

depends whether you are bothered enough or just happy to let it drift on for 6 years!

 

bear in mind that if they eventually find a CCA then the debt woudl then become enforceable again

[master woody]

agreed with the last poster, but right now i'm paying them! So i think the only way to get attention is to stop paying.

 

let say i want to pay could i complain to trading standards? or make a complaint to the company. I understand that supplying the doc 's is a legal requirment?

[master woody]

so stop paying then

[twofoot]

It is unlikely you'll get a good F&F while still paying and even if you are not paying they have their own procedure to follow which means until they had no payment for at least 6 months any FF would be a minimum discount. Best bet is to go through all the things advised on here Like CCA, NOA & SAR etc. After that you should be in a much stronger position as they will not be sure of getting paid.

[dx100uk]

what does your cra file say?

if there is nothing there, then stop paying these muppets.

 

i'd seriously get an sar off to the oc & do a reclaim on all the charges + int, it must be huge given the time span.

 

get in the driving seat with this debt, not be a silent passenger.............

 

dx

[master woody]

what does your cra file say?

if there is nothing there, then stop paying these muppets.

 

i'd seriously get an sar off to the oc & do a reclaim on all the charges + int, it must be huge given the time span.

 

get in the driving seat with this debt, not be a silent passenger.............

 

dx

 

Hi Thanks for your imput, I've all ready SAR HSBC, no CAA!

I did'nt get any changes or intrest or PPI on this account apart from one charge which i could'nt be bothered to claim for.

 

I think i'm going to send a letter saying i'm going to stop paying if you fail to supply the CCA in the next 7 day and also report you to trading standards but i'm willing to talk.

 

My credit file has the defualt and alleged amount owed and reports "in agreement" every month

[diddydicky]

my advice would be to simply stop paying- you have advised them that the account kis in dispute and they have not responded (so by default they have accepted that argument) so any subsequent charges will be easily defeated-

 

i would simply sit tight for 6 years- if they are going to chase you they will do it within the first year

[master woody]

Right i've sent them a letter saying i will give you a further 14 days as a guesture of good will if you are unabel to supply the required documents by then i'm going to:

 

1 Stop Paying

2 Complain to trading standards

Complain to ?????? any one else ????

 

 

I think if CL take me to court..... i can say to the judge "look i tryed to get this sorted out and even them every chance...look at these letters

[master woody]

Cl finance has written to me regarding my request for my agreement

 

after 4 months of waiting ( and still paying) they have written back "saying we are unable to obtain the agreement as the orginal creditor only holds records for six years). I know this is untrue and that creditors should keep records for six years after the account is closed.

 

They have aslo refuned my £1.

 

the problem is thay also say they will take me to court if i stop paying.

 

I know enforcment will now be near impossible for them

 

What the best way of now trying to get a very low say 10% full and final or getting the debt wrtten off.

 

any ideas are welcome

[accesspwd]

You should take a look at the letter templates,

 

I think there is one that says the debt becomes unenforcable as they didnt produce the CCA.

 

Check out the templates

[the_maverick]

Hi Master Woody,

 

First thing you will learn is that banks will bend the truth (and even downright lie!) to make you keep paying. Dont be worried by threats of court action...you are months away from that in any circumstances, and never if they do not have the right documents...regardless of what they claim!

 

I was completely upto date with all my debts (although struggling) and my banks told me they will only 'help' me when I prove I am struggling. So basically if you keep paying there is no incentive for them to help you.

 

So send the official request for a CCA using the templates here and stop paying when they inevitably fail to produce one in 12 days + 2 time!

[the_maverick]

I missed the fact you already cca'd them so stop paying now!

[sam614]

You should take a look at the letter templates,

 

I think there is one that says the debt becomes unenforcable as they didnt produce the CCA.

 

Check out the templates

 

 

click on blue DCA

 

send template number 20

 

failure to supply,account in dispute.

 

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER

[dcakiller]

Report them to oft & trading standards for threating legal action while you account is in disspute

Edited June 19, 2009 by dcakiller
typo

[sam614]

only stop paying if thats what you wish,after you have put it indispute.

 

report them if the threaten action again after they have received the letter.

 

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER

[master woody]

Thanks for the replies, i sent letter 20 after the the 12 =2 days expire some months ago.

 

I'm going to stop paying and see,what happens.

[superjaw]

I'm in the same boat Master Woody. Good luck and hold your nerve. Remember, all they have is hot air!

[master woody]

Cl finace have sent me a letter saying that the agreement i requested has been destroyed and sent me my £1 back regarding a debt for 5K credit card debt

 

two days after i stoping payments to cl moorcroft have been phoning me. i hav'nt spoken to them.

 

 

has anyone any experiance of moorcorft?

 

how long do you think i'll be on the DCA merrygoround untill they give up.

 

not bother about going to court as there no CCA, but don't want the crap in the post or the calls

[tottys]

moorcroft are a load of brainless monkeys they dont know their a*** from their elbows just write to them and tell them where to go and stick all their letters but dont sign it...

[count orlok]

Moorcroft are easy to dispatch, just send them the bemused letter and they'll pass it back to the OC, who'll probably pass it onto anther DCA a bit further down the food chain, who'll eventually pass it back to the OC, ad infinitum.