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lewis94

HSBC Personal Loans - Two Loans within 2 Months

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I am trying to recover from a major finacial blip, and am slowly sorting out loans, credit cards etc

however I was given some advice recently regarding my existing HSBC loan and wondered if anyone had a view as to the legalities of it.

 

Scenario;

 

I took out a loan on 22/02/07 for £4500 (12 months)

subsequently found myself falling short of money (for various reasons) and in the well known spiral I went back to the bank for help.

At the time HSBC said they werent interested and sent me away.

I then went to a different HSBC branch and got them to issue a new loan, swallowing up my first loan.

The second loan was taken out on 20/04/07 for £8500 (48 months) which I have paid every month without fail.

 

Following a review of all my accounts/debts etc and formulating a repayment plan with all the creditors an advisor pointed out the me "off the record", having previously worked for HSBC, that the banks own terms and conditions for issuing loans is that where it is used to consolidate a loan or a second loan is taken out at least three payments must have been made.

 

In this instance I actually only paid two instalments.

It was suggested that I contact HSBC and suggest that they acted against their own code of conduct and issued the second loan illegally and that I shouldnt of be given it.

Because of this it was suggested that I ask them to cancel the loan agreement forthwith and if I had no success then go to the ombudsman.

 

Having read through numerous threads it would seem that there are quite logical steps and ways to proceed

 

Any suggestions/ideas?

 

Thanks in advance

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Hiya lewis and welcome to the HSBC forum :)

 

I think you need to look closely at the HSBC terms and conditions and maybe have a further discussion with your adviser to make sure you know where the bank has breached its own code of practice and you can prove it :)

 

Once you have done that go for them :) if you don't ask you don't get :D

 

pete

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I asked for copies of the agreements and they said they only had to provide the T&Cs for the loan I have now as the other one has been settled. Can they do this?

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Under the consumer credit act yes :rolleyes: but if your dispute gets to court they will need to provide either the original document or a copy of it under the CPR rules ("judges rules"... he can ask for what he wants) they are playing a dangerous game of chicken :rolleyes:

 

pete

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Forgot to ask is there a correct form to ask for a copy of the terms and conditions as the one I wrote just asked for copies only

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The best thing to use is a Data Protection Act SAR... there are templates in the library but make sure you ask for everything they have with your name on it... don't limit it to just statements of account etc.... one will do for all of your accounts... bargain for £10 lol

 

This will give you everything they have on file about you and if somethings not there you can ask very serious questions if it "appears" later :rolleyes:

 

pete

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Many thanks. I have already download a template letter and filled it in ready to send off with a cheque tomorrow. Is this the one I have to allow 40days for them to return or for me to collect from a bank? Can I use this same letter for my current account and credit card all at HSBC?

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The data protection act doesn't differentiate between accounts. they will need to supply all the information they are holding concerning you with one letter to the bank :) yes they have 40 days to provide the information but well worth the £10.

 

List all of your account, card and loan numbers at the top of the letter and make sure you don't limit what your asking for in the text... I think the standard template does limit what your asking for so just alter it to ask for everything :)

 

pete

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I think the standard template does limit what your asking for so just alter it to ask for everything

 

I notice the SAR has been tweaked pete -:) the sentence about settling for just the statements has gone thank goodness - they were playing on that something rotten of late ...... :rolleyes:


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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Just to keep you updated the HSBC sent a letter last week saying they acknowledge my request and will deal with it, also noticed they cashed my cheque.

 

On Friday 3rd July I received a phone call from the operations manager asking why do I need the information and what was I trying to achieve.

I politey said that I am chasing not only bank charges, to which she butted in and said following a recently ruling I wouldnt get anything back (which I know is not necessarily the case) and then I said that I was going to take further the issue of being given a second loan at a time which I shouldnt of because it was against the HSBC loan policy.

 

 

The lady went very quiet.

She then said only one loan appeared on my account.

I asked her to cross reference it and see what it was used to pay off and how many monthly payments I had made on the first one.

The lady then went very offish and said she couldnt discuss this any further as there seemed to be an error on the system.

 

Prior to ending the call I asked if the 'all calls are recored' applied to our conversation and she said no because they had called me not the other way around.

I said I would write to the HSBC confirming our conversation which she took offence to.

I will make sure they are aware of this

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Just to keep you updated the HSBC sent a letter last week saying they acknowledge my request and will deal with it, also noticed they cashed my cheque.

 

On Friday 3rd July I recieved a phone call from the operations manager asking why do I need the information and what was I trying to achieve.

 

It's none of their business what you're trying to achieve lewis - their function is to produce all that they have on you via the SAR , or answer to the Information Commissioner as to why they have not complied .

 

I politey said that I am chasing not only bank charges, to which she butted in and said following a recently ruling I wouldnt get anything back (which I know is not necessarily the case)

 

There has been no decision on this yet , but the general feeling is that the banks are resigned to losing , so if they can put you off by lying (which IMHO this is :eek: ) they'll do it .

 

and then I said that I was going to take further the issue of being given a second loan at a time which I shouldnt of because it was against the HSBC loan policy. The lady went very quiet. She then said only one loan appeared on my account. I asked her to cross reference it and see what it was used to pay off and how many monthly payments I had made on the first one. The lady then went very offish and said she couldnt discuss this any further as there seemed to be an error on the system.

 

She needs reporting , did you get her name by any chance lewis?

 

Prior to ending the call I asked if the 'all calls are recored' applied to our conversation and she said no because they had called me not the other way around. I said I would write to the HSBC confirming our conversation which she took offence to. I will make sure they are aware of this

 

Good for you lewis -:) there are too many of these bank people prepared to lie and try to confuse customers - and in a lot of cases the poor punter will take it at face value ...... I would use the banks complaint system first , so that if you have ot report it to ICO/FOS you've gone through the right procedure by giving them a chance to explain themselves and to comply with your SAR .....

And of course , keep pushing on the Two Loans issue - you've got them rattled there I think .... LOL!


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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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AS an update to my posting.

 

The 40 days ran out yesterday. My credit card information came through Tuesday but the loan and personal account information was sent to my bank branch yesterday and I was called to collect. I went there this morning and they said they knew nothing of it, only to be called back over an hour later to say they had found a box marked for my attention so I returned to collect.

 

Firstly there is nothing in the box with my signature on whatsoever. No copies of loan agreements from 2007, therefore no signed agreements. Does this constitue not providing me with the correct information?

 

Secondly and more worringly, inside the pack of information is the personal account details of a person with the same name and date of birth as me but is a completely different person living miles away. It even shows the internet banking account number and memorable password, adress email mobile number etc. Should I raise this with someone this could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

 

Lastly I have account statements of over 400 pages. Do I now need to go through and identify the charges and overdraft charges etc? I noticed in April 2008 I was charged over £150 in charges for one month.

 

Any advice would be extremly grateful.

 

Thanks

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Hiya Lewis a lot in your post so I will go through it a point at a time :)

 

Firstly there is nothing in the box with my signature on whatsoever. No copies of loan agreements from 2007, therefore no signed agreements. Does this constitue not providing me with the correct information?

 

Are there any blank terms and conditions in the information they have sent? The Consumer Credit Act is a little sloppy on this point so they can get away with this untill they get to court, then the CPR's take over and the court will need to see a signed document.

 

Secondly and more worringly, inside the pack of information is the personal account details of a person with the same name and date of birth as me but is a completely different person living miles away. It even shows the internet banking account number and memorable password, adress email mobile number etc. Should I raise this with someone this could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

 

This is a major breach of the Data Protection Act. having said that its obviously a sloppy mistake on the banks part, I would be inclined to send the information that isnt yours back to the bank with a letter pointing out their error and recording exactly what they sent you.

 

Lastly I have account statements of over 400 pages. Do I now need to go through and identify the charges and overdraft charges etc? I noticed in April 2008 I was charged over £150 in charges for one month.

 

Yes :D this is the fun part where you find out how much they owe you :).

 

Hope that helps

 

pete

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Thanks Castlebest.

 

There are no blank terms and conditions or even a note to say what the loans where for how much etc. There are printouts of the starting total and the amounts leftover at the end of each month.

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As pete says , lewis - this is the fun part ..... but these links might help you to identify what charges are reclaimable .....

 

Charges description on statements (i.e.what you can claim for

 

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/15518-charges-description-statements-please.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/209527-what-hsbc-charges-claimable.html#post2292405


Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Right as a long awaited update and a little advice needed.

 

Firstly HSBC tried to kick me out of my account and after two months of them threatening nothing has happened.

I then wrote a number of letters regarding the loans etc and this has been in parallel with my credit card problems,

however after saying that I wasnt happy with their answers and that I wanted the contact details for the ombudsman they sent this reply.

 

Not only is the letter poorly written,

I confirms that a number of points I raised are valid.

Is this why they have given me a generous 'donation' of £25? or am I reading too much into this?

 

Can someone advise on a few points?

 

The loan amounts are wrong on the letter and are £8500 not £8000.

 

They suggest I made no payments when I actually made two payments on the original loan.

 

In paragraph 5 they confirm that 3 payments were required to be made on the loan before it could be restructured yet Ive only paid 2

 

They confirm that the banks representative should have confirmed it was a smartloan which at the time they didn't

 

The loan application was not referred to the underwriting unit but I am told for loans of this amount it should be

 

On the second page they say they cannot find any information, yet this was my main request from previous correspondance.

 

If you work the dates out from Feb 2007 to April 2007 it would even suggest that I didnt have time to make 3 payments,

 

any help or advice would be appreciated

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Can someone advise on a few points?

 

The loan amounts are wrong on the letter and are £8500 not £8000.

 

Is it possible the other £500 represents the amount of interest of the loan or PPI payments? So it was a £8000 loan and £500 front loaded interest?

 

They suggest I made no payments when I actually made two payments on the original loan.

I don't think this changes anything, probably a human error confusing no payments with not enough payments being made.

 

In paragraph 5 they confirm that 3 payments were required to be made on the loan before it could be restructured yet Ive only paid 2

They confirm that the banks representative should have confirmed it was a smartloan which at the time they didnt

The loan application was not referred to the underwriting unit but I am told for loans of this amount it should be

Their argument appears to be that your financial situation at the time was fine, so there was no need to refer. I guess the staff have certain ability to decide when or when not to refer!

 

On the second page they say they cannot find any information, yet this was my main request from previous correspondance.

If you work the dates out from Feb 2007 to April 2007 it would even suggest that I didnt have time to make 3 payments,

I dont think you or them are in disagreement on this?

 

At the end of the day, there is potentially another paragraph in the terms and conditions that gives them the power to do what they want (as in, end a loan at any time they want), therefore they likely have the power to end it and give you a new one as they did do!

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