Is it the job of Dyfed Powys Police to assist bailiffs to enforce a civil debt?

[IamALLthatIam]

I need help from who ever can give it,please

 

My house was forceably entered today through a locked back door by bailiffs who proceeded to unlawfully seize all saleable goods. i called the police 999 when I discovered these guys were on my property and asked the police to take action, ei I was formally making complaints of theft , burglary ,tresspass, and breaking and entry to which the police refused. i asked it they were going to take my complaints seriously to which threy replied , NO , and laughed about it. One also proceeded to hold the door open for the bailiffs.

 

I asked to see there warrant, to which they refused and said they didnt have to show me, they have no legal obligation to do so, the baillif said they have a blanket warrant that covers this area and that is all they need , they also refused to show me ID

 

I have five days to make a payment otherwise roughly £7000 of goods will be sold at auction to cover a £2000 debt that is in serious dispute as we are not liable for it

 

i have made a complaint to the IPPC tonight , but have obviously not had a reponse

 

i wanted it to be noted for the record that i had no choice to other than to protest and my complience was under duress , they all reufsed to note this , bailliffs and police, telling me to shut up and threatening me with arrest.

 

i have had to keep out of conflict as if i tackle them at all i was warned that if i were to be arrest my kids would be collected from their school, and social services would be contacted - ie, they would go into care

 

what i want to know is , where do i go from here when the very people that have sworn an oath to protect and serve the people will not uphold the law?

[hallowitch]

we bit more info please if you don't mind what was the debt for

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Is it the job of Dyfed Powys Police to assist bailiffs to enforce a civil debt?

 

Answer, No. If the bailiff cheats with his fees or commits an offence then the police officers would be liable for damages plus they would be criminally liable under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 for assisting an offender and failing to apprehend or impede the prosecution of the offender. Its not worth risking their careers over it.

[dx100uk]

the only reason for the police attending with bailliffs is to stop a breach of the peace AFAIK.

 

the only time a bailliff can force entry to an otherwise secure property is under the direct of a gas company?

 

else it is illegal.

 

thats my take

 

i'll let the more knowledgable ones confirm/deny , but as said we need more info

 

dx

[IamALLthatIam]

The police were not present when the bailiffs broke in, i called 999 and asked the police to attend because i felt very threatened as these people were already in my property when i came back from the doctors.

 

We have made sure all doors were locked and secured and have this recorded on film, but the police claim that is insufficient proof and means nothing. They have openly accused us of lying which is very offensive and even though the keys were stiil in the locks and the doors clearly forced they are claiming that the door was left open , even though they were not present to see whether or not that was the case,

 

One bailiffs claimed he has a right to force entry anyway as he is a high county sherriff ???

 

The debt was for council tax which has been at the stage of serious dispute for sometime as we feel we are not liable, we have offered conditional acceptance of the debts ( for three different properties,house , shop and the flat above it ) if they provide us with proof of their claim, i have even made a freedom of information act request for this information, their reponse was to issue a formal refusal to my request.

 

we were paying by installments , but they refused to accept my last payment , decideing to return my cheque to me as it was not for the full amount.

 

the reason why it was not for the full amount is that , upon threats of a baillif vists, we are not earning as we have been forced to close our shop,we were told if we tried to open the shop for business they would claim peaceable entry.

 

they baillif called last week and said he would return with a commital warrant , but instead decided to levy distress.

 

out of all the goods in the house they were only interested in seizing the computers, telephone , fax, camcorder, as they know we have copies of all letters and evdience stored , logged and recordered on the answer phone and pc's , they took items belong to my daughters and son, including their shoes, when we stated that we objected because they cannot take kids toys ect, they said " they dont give a toss", we tried to seize a memory stick with m daughters exam work on, which she has to hand in tomorrow and her exercise equipment( 16th birthday present fro my mum who is in hospital, they also took my mum's sewing machine and i am not willing to make here health worse by expecting her to discharge herself in order to get home t find recipts), the police woman just said she would just have to run then and that we could keep "the ****" indicating the leather sofa and items that clearly would not allow us to communiate with anyone

 

are they allowed to take chidlrens possesions , ie they have seized my sons phone and he' s pc too, they say it is doen to me son to prove ownership , he is 12 years old and the pc was gifted to him (birthday) by his gran mother who died in april, so they would be no receipts

 

How can they justify such criminal behaviour and how can the police justify holding the door open for them, which i am held by my wrists and blocked in a doorway by another police officier telling me if i move they will cuff me?

[gallygaskins]

are they allowed to take chidlrens possesions , ie they have seized my sons phone and he' s pc too, they say it is doen to me son to prove ownership , he is 12 years old and the pc was gifted to him (birthday) by his gran mother who died in april, so they would be no receipts

 

From what I understand and from reading other posts - they are not allowed to take anything that is either essential for everyday living, so basically your kitchen and your bed are safe, whereas most of your electricals are not unless they are needed for the purposes of work. As for your children's stuff then they have no right to take anything belonging to them and I suppose if they are in their bedrooms that is a clear indication that they belong to the children and not you. I would seek further help on this matter though.

 

How can they justify such criminal behaviour and how can the police justify holding the door open for them, which i am held by my wrists and blocked in a doorway by another police officier telling me if i move they will cuff me?

 

Because they are playing on our ignorance, if they believe we don't know the law then they will try anything to bully us into submission.

 

As for the police, I am surprised. Even though bully boy bailiffs say they will phone them to help them gain peaceable entry the police are on this earth for criminal matters not civil matters but this display would suggest otherwise.

 

I despise bailiffs and I hope they all realise that they are going to hell for all that they do to people, the stress they put them through, the arguments you end up having with your partner, the embarrassment and humiliation they try to cause you. These people must be completely spineless.

 

Can't understand the council either, sending back the cheque, they should be glad they are getting anything at all and the courts would take a very dim veiw of that as long as you could prove that you sent it in the first place.

 

You should post more info though, get all your correspondence and scan it in, the more 'with-it' posters will be able to see exactly what has been going on and be able to help more.

[tomtubby]

I need help from who ever can give it,please

 

My house was forceably entered today through a locked back door by bailiffs who proceeded to unlawfully seize all saleable goods. i called the police 999 when I discovered these guys were on my property and asked the police to take action, ei I was formally making complaints of theft , burglary ,tresspass, and breaking and entry to which the police refused. i asked it they were going to take my complaints seriously to which threy replied , NO , and laughed about it. One also proceeded to hold the door open for the bailiffs.

 

I asked to see there warrant, to which they refused and said they didnt have to show me, they have no legal obligation to do so, the baillif said they have a blanket warrant that covers this area and that is all they need , they also refused to show me ID

 

I have five days to make a payment otherwise roughly £7000 of goods will be sold at auction to cover a £2000 debt that is in serious dispute as we are not liable for it

 

i have made a complaint to the IPPC tonight , but have obviously not had a reponse

 

i wanted it to be noted for the record that i had no choice to other than to protest and my complience was under duress , they all reufsed to note this , bailliffs and police, telling me to shut up and threatening me with arrest.

 

i have had to keep out of conflict as if i tackle them at all i was warned that if i were to be arrest my kids would be collected from their school, and social services would be contacted - ie, they would go into care

 

what i want to know is , where do i go from here when the very people that have sworn an oath to protect and serve the people will not uphold the law?

 

This is VERY serious.

 

The bailiff can ONLY force entry in the event theta they have PREVIOUSLY been into your home and levied upon goods.

 

Did this happen?

 

You can make a Regulation 46 Complaint if you are "aggrevied" by the levy. This is the CORRECT course of action, in particular becuse of the fact that children's goods have been removed etc.

 

Can you confirm whether the bailiff's have previosuly been into your home to levy upon goods?

 

In addition, have you checked to see whther the bailiff is certificated?

[IamALLthatIam]

HI there ,

 

No the bailiffs have not previous entered our home and levied on anything at all , they ahve not gained peaceable entry , althoguh they have claimed that that is what this si this time , althoguth they forced my locked back doors with a lot more than resonable force

 

this is the fourth visit to the property

 

the first one bailiffs just shoved a notice through my door , not in an envelope , just a sheet of A4 and was not addressed to me

 

second visit ( 4 days later)was the original bailiff and one other , they proceed to clamp a car that was not mine , i dont even drive. we phoned the council and eventually got then to remove the clamp and had the visit postponed for 14 days while we tried to sort this out with the council. police were called out again by me on that occassion to prevent a breach of the peace as my children were home , he knew that my daughter answered the door , and he was shouting and putting the fear of god into them , they were pertified because they were now aware that he would come into the back garden why they were playing and he had threatened to come in through windows , which we stated were all locked and no he cannot do that without our conesnt and he cant obtain forceable entry without first gaining peaceable entry , he said ok i`ll just gain peaceble entry into your shop and ill seize goods from there instead, once done he can force entry next time , hence we have had to keep the shop cllosed for business

 

third time he ariived on his own , and we were able to film the vist, we afforded him witha copy of all the notices we had sent the council and told he was were still awanting a repsonse , from the courts too because we ahve asked for the warrant to be withdrawn

 

at not time have the entered this property , not even a foot in the door , they knew it was all locked and that the security measures had been placed on film

 

as far as the baliffs being certified, we havent even seen ID , the only people that had seen ID is the police on this ocassion , the second visit they would only give there names when asked as tim and jason

 

this visit again it was tim and now we have his surname along with the name of the other guy claiming to be a county sherriff, he is supposedly the oenwer , director of the company , he said it is his business

[IamALLthatIam]

incidently i have never invited them in , i have only repeatedly refused them any consent to entry and repeatedly refused any access

 

i didn't not invited the police in either , they just walked wihtout my consent

[IamALLthatIam]

also there was and never has been a walking pocession order. i asked for a copy of a walking pocession order , he told me not to be stupid their isn't one , they are not doing a walking pocession they are just taking all saleable items ( 32 in all , can provide a list if needed) and kept repeating that " i am about to learn a very hard lesson in authority" and i am about to learn a very hard lesson in what it means to pay council tax "

 

twice he promised us and guaranteed that he would show us the warrants when the police arrived , after havin a private word with the police , which I tried to film , got told it was a private conversation by the police officier and to put the camera down if i wanted them to deal w ith this , other wise he would charge me with obstuction

 

after that converstaion he refused to show any warrant stating he just had this blanket liabilty order which the policewoman claimed he was not obliged to show me.

 

so we have still not seen one

 

what is a blanket liabilty order and is it lawful?

[heliosfa]

To be honest, a blanket liability order is a load of bull. They have no blanket liability order as a liability order is for a person, though they can have a block of liability orders stampped together. I was under the impression that they had to present the liability order/warrant when asked?

 

It would be like the police saying they have a blanket warrent to enter every house in an area and refusing to give you proof.

 

 

 

If this was me, I would be going down to my local police station, insist on speaking to an inspector and press charges against the baliff for breaking and entering, theft and fraud. I would also insist on reporting the officers involved for aiding and abetting, fraud, permitting an offence to take place, etc. etc.

 

What has happened is dispicable! You need to contact the council, talk to your MP and the press.

 

 

I don't know whether it is possible in this case, but can the OP apply for an order to prevent sale of goods?

 

 

(sorry if the above seems like a rant, but what has happened to you is nothing short of oppressive and criminal!)

 

H

[IamALLthatIam]

can you please just confirm for me , can a bailiff seize goods, without doing a walking possession order first? because they have not gained entry and done one , he claimed he doesn't need one. i did ask for a copy and got told not to be stupid.

 

the documents they left behind include three white sheets entitled inventory of good removed this is unsigned and undated

 

there are also three yellow carbon copies entitled notice of seizure and inventory , stapled in the same bundle, this is dated 16.6.09

 

now are they likely to try and say that this inventory was done on a previous visit?

because it most certainly was not

tim filled the inventory out in the back of the van while richard filled the yellow forms out in the front cab afterwards , using the white sheets from tim

[IamALLthatIam]

 

You can make a Regulation 46 Complaint if you are "aggrevied" by the levy. This is the CORRECT course of action, in particular becuse of the fact that children's goods have been removed etc.

 

 

can you possibly send me a link to a regulation 46 complaint , i do not even know what one is , thank you so much

[Guest Happy Contrails]

No the bailiffs have not previous entered our home and levied on anything at all , they ahve not gained peaceable entry , althoguh they have claimed that that is what this si this time , althoguth they forced my locked back doors with a lot more than resonable force

 

This is not the work of bailiffs, it looks like you have been burgled by criminals pretending to be bailiffs. This post will show you what to do next. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/199575-bailiffs-enforcement-police-horror-6.html#post2232296

 

Your post doesn't say what kind of debt this is, demands for £7000, documents through your door with somebody elses name on it, clamping a neigbours car etc, it doesn't look right. Phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued the bailiffs certificate. Download the complaint form to make an official complaint against the bailiff http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court enclosing supporting evidence such as the bailiffs document showing the bailiffs fees he is trying to charge and any amounts paid. If the Ministry of Justice cannot identify the bailiff then you are almost certainly dealing with common criminals.

[hallowitch]

• Distress
  45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.
   
   
  (2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—
  
  • (a) an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and
    
  • (b) a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.
    

  (3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

   

  (4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

   

  (5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

   

  (6) A distress may be made anywhere in England and Wales.

   

  (7) A distress shall not be deemed unlawful on account of any defect or want of form in the liability order, and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser on that account; and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser from the beginning on account of any subsequent irregularity in making the distress, but a person sustaining special damage by reason of the subsequent irregularity may recover full satisfaction for the special damage (and no more) by proceedings in trespass or otherwise.

   

  (8) The provisions of this regulation shall not affect the operation of any enactment which protects goods of any class from distress.

   

  (9) Nothing in the Distress (Costs) Act 1817[22], as extended by the Distress (Costs) Act 1827[23], (which makes provision as to the costs and expenses of the levying of certain distresses) shall apply to a distress under this regulation.

• Appeals in connection with distress
  46.—(1) A person aggrieved by the levy of, or an attempt to levy, a distress may appeal to a magistrates' court.
   
  (2) The appeal shall be instituted by making complaint to a justice of the peace, and requesting the issue of a summons directed to the authority which levied or attempted to levy the distress to appear before the court to answer to the matter by which the person is aggrieved.
   
  (3) If the court is satisfied that a levy was irregular, it may order the goods distrained to be discharged if they are in the possession of the authority; and it may by order award compensation in respect of any goods distrained and sold of an amount equal to the amount which, in the opinion of the court, would be awarded by way of special damages in respect of the goods if proceedings were brought in trespass or otherwise in connection with the irregularity under regulation 45(7).
   
  (4) If the court is satisfied that an attempted levy was irregular, it may by order require the authority to desist from levying in the manner giving rise to the irregularity.
  

[hallowitch]

stupid question but have you been in touch with council today do they know that the bailiffs removed your property without a walking possession order

[shakespeare62]

Here's a useful link apparently a bailiff can only charge £24.50 for a first visit for council tax - else he commits fraud :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/194634-help-issues-jacobs-bailiffs.html#post2107138

[FairPlay77]

incidently i have never invited them in , i have only repeatedly refused them any consent to entry and repeatedly refused any access

 

i didn't not invited the police in either , they just walked wihtout my consent

 

THIS is so outrageous and out-of-order that I think, apart from complaining to the IPCC and the council etc, you should get your local media involved, including your local TV News (especially as you have film footage).

 

Also, I think you should contact your local MP and your local councillor.

[BlurredFX]

stupid question but have you been in touch with council today do they know that the bailiffs removed your property without a walking possession order

 

NOt stupid at all Hallow, IMHO.

 

The damage has been done here. Need to find square one I think. Not that I am any expert like, but...

[andie_303]

Remember you can also hold the council liable for activities their agents i.e. the bailiffs, perform whilst on council business!!

 

I am stunned by this and I seriously hope it gets sorted both with the bailiffs and the police dealt with appropriatley.

 

BTW there is no such thing as a blanket warrant to enter homes - they have to get a warrant for your residence in your name and this is to be shown to you and a copy made available.

[ambershadow]

I can't get oveer this blimey how are they allowed to do that?

 

I am sure their not allowed

[letsmakeamark]

Remember you can also hold the council liable for activities their agents i.e. the bailiffs, perform whilst on council business!!

 

I am stunned by this and I seriously hope it gets sorted both with the bailiffs and the police dealt with appropriatley.

 

BTW there is no such thing as a blanket warrant to enter homes - they have to get a warrant for your residence in your name and this is to be shown to you and a copy made available.

 

As long as the council have a written contract or a service level agreement with them.

[IamALLthatIam]

Here's a useful link apparently a bailiff can only charge £24.50 for a first visit for council tax - else he commits fraud :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/194634-help-issues-jacobs-bailiffs.html#post2107138

 

i had to borrow £2000 from a friend today to pay these baillfs t o get these possessions back , it was not by credit card as i do not have one and do not know anyone that has that sort of credit available so i cannot do a chargeback unfortunately,

 

he supposedly has three didiferent warrants under this blanket warrant , ans has charged me three lots of £22.50, plus 3 lotys of £16.50 for 1st and sesond visit even though they didnt make three separate visits for each one plus other charges

 

can they charge three ,lots of fees for one visit , we did ask and he said yes it is legal he had been taken to court for that and won

- i dont know how true that is mind you as he is prone to lying , we were going to visit there offices to pay but he arranged to meeet us in a macdonals car park claiming they had just that minute reloaded their van in order to take our possessions to storage.

 

As far as i am concerned those items never left the van , they were packed in exactly the same positions as they were when the first removed the goods

 

i asked if those possession has ever ledt the van , they said yes only they has access to them , they has been in their lock up , i wanted to know if at any point had the pc's been powered up and the information contained wiped ( ie my daughters exam work)

 

having set the pc's up all is still here !!!! yay!!!! which convinces me more that the stuff had neevr left the van

[dx100uk]

can they charge three ,lots of fees for one visit .no way

 

you really need to nail this bailliff co.

there is enough here already for everyone of them and p'haps the co. to loose their licences and be procecuted for fraud bigtime.

 

get your mp onboard.

 

dx

[gdhfs]

If you search the HMCS website for document EX345 - about bailiffs and enforcement officers this will give you the detailis of who to complain to in relation to the poor conduct of these bailiffs.