Possibly unusual Me Vs Barclays

[matt0677]

I may be in the wrong forum because I couldn't find anything like this in the first few pages.

 

I made a payment to a garage using Chip & Pin on a VISA debit card issued by Barclays. I made the payment in order to escape with my car and my nose intact, it was made under protest and under duress.

 

The account I used was disused and empty - I had been banking with another bank for quite some time.

 

I contacted Barclays and VISA repeatedly by telephone and in person.

 

The branch said that C&P is irreversible, even though the payment was still "pending". I got them to put their refusal to cancel the payment in writing.

 

VISA debit card services tried to help by cancelling my overdraft facility, saying that would cause the payment to bounce. They were either misinformed or lying, because the payment went ahead and incurred fees.

 

Eventually I got onto Customer Relations who reinstated my overdraft and refunded the fee. By this time the £860 had been debited. After some persuasion I finally got them to admit the existence of VISA Debit Card Chargeback.

 

The forms failed to arrive twice, and failed to be faxed to my branch twice. I did eventually get hold of them (obviously they don't like customers using this service!)

 

They refused to action the chargeback because it was "between me and the merchant".

 

My position is that I did not authorise the payment and they were aware of this at the time they debited my account. I went to a lot of effort to make them aware of the situation so the chance that I'm acting fraudulently is nil.

 

Their position is that I entered my PIN so computer says NO.

 

After several letters back and forth I lost patience and demanded that they produce any contracts which I have signed, stating that C&P overrides my explicit instructions, and if they could not do so then they should leave me alone or be reported for harassment. They have not responded. I also notified them that I considered our relationship terminated due to their breach of trust, and returned my card to them.

 

I have received a few sinister phonecalls involving people who want me to confirm who I am and my address- at least two of which mentioned that they work for Barclays but they were like something out of Phonejacker so clearly not above board. I've not confirmed anything to these people. The last one was EXTREMELY cagey, I had to force him to give his name and when he did so I said I'd never heard of him, he said "you wouldn't have". When I told him to stop messing me about he said he had a letter for me and wanted to make sure it was going to the right address. I asked why he would have mail for me, and he said (triumphantly) "Ah so you are Mr XXXXX I'm from Barclays" at which point I had had enough and hung up. I wish I'd waited to hear what he wanted but I was extremely ****ed off.

 

Just wondered if anybody can let me know what to expect next? As far as I'm concerned, since we can't agree who is liable for the outstanding balance I would be happy for the court to decide - I'm already in the red every month anyway and have no assets so any award would be a few quid per month - it seems Barclays are going all cloak-and-dagger which worried me a bit as I don't want to come home and find that debt-collectors have had my limited edition classic car away and auctioned it off for £50 I will probably transfer the V5 to my brother in law just to be safe. Are they wise to that sort of shenanigans?

[slick132]

Hi Matt,

 

I think your problem may get better advice in the General Consumer Issues forum, so I'll move it there.

 

While I understand your need to get the car back with your nose intact, I think you have gone about this in the wrong way.

 

I think this IS a matter between you and the garage. By using Chip and PIN, you authorised the debit, even though you intended to try and stop the payment through the bank's system.

 

I don't think the chargeback system is there to enable you to pay, but then reverse the transaction because you objected to the garage's charges.

 

If you feel you have a valid claim against the garage, then pursue the matter in writing and take court action if necessary. Just my 2p's worth !

 

If you don't get the help you need in the Gen'l Con'r Issues forum, we can move the thread again to the Vehicles forum.

[matt0677]

I have not had a choice in how to "go about this". The WHOLE PURPOSE of the chargeback system is so that you can reverse transactions which were made without your authorisation.

 

Do I want my car scrapped and my nose broken? No thanks. The only option is to enter my PIN. Police say talk to the bank, bank says talk to the police.

 

In the end, it's not my money the bank has used to pay the merchant (without my authorisation).

 

So I ask again, after the sinister phonecalls what will they try next?

[slick132]

Hi Matt,

 

I'd say you authorised the transaction when you entered your PIN, but I doubt we'll agree on this.

 

As regards the phone calls, this will be Barclays or a DCA trying to find your present address and checking if the phone no. they have is still working.

 

I expect B's will harass you for a while and then take you to court. Or they'll sell the debt to a DCA to chase.

[BSC]

have to say I agree with slick. Despite being under duress you entered your pin and that is an authorisation.

 

Your issue is with the garage, not with Barclays

[matt0677]

Hm I understand that but since the transaction was still "pending" when I notified the bank of the situation, they have effectively made a payment against my authorisation.

 

If it's just a case of going to court I'm happy with that as I have no way of paying such a huge sum of money anyway.

 

Sorry to have come across a bit short in my previous reply, I'm a bit stressed out about this as I am a victim in the whole thing yet now I'm going to be hounded like I stole the money or something.

[BSC]

It's not a good situation Matt and I hope you get it resolved.

 

Even though the amount was pending to come out of your account, it was already authorised and in progress and thats why it would be impossible to stop.

 

The banks don't help themselves by using stupid phrases such as 'pending' though as what it means internally is not the same as a persons expectation outside of the industry.

[slick132]

Hi Matt,

 

Garages have you over a barrel - no money, no car. And some take advantage of this.

 

Is taking them to court simply not an option. From your earlier posts it sounds like they probably use large spanners instead of solicitors.

 

If you think you could try negotiating with them, with a view to a refund, let us have more info so we can advise on your next move.

 

Have you spoken to Trading Standards about your problem - maybe others have complained already and this would put you in a stronger postion.

 

I think the police would only be interested if you were actually threatened, as opposed to being intimidated.

[matt0677]

Trying to negotiate with the garage is futile, and Trading Standards just told me to write a letter to the garage, (although they did admit in their reply that they had estimated 6 hours, charged for 14 hours and not spoken to me about it in the interim).

 

As things stand I'll just wait for the court to look at it. If they find me liable I will have to pay. I can't afford to take the garage to court so it looks like they've got away with it.

[BSC]

Have you spoken to a solicitor? Most offer a fixed fee for 30mins advice.

[slick132]

If you took the garage to court for up to £500, the costs would be £45 to file a claim, £35 if you have to file an Allocation Questionnaire and a further £50 to have a court hearing. All these would be claimed from the defendant if you won.

 

If the garage have confirmed in writing that they estimated 6 hours labour but charged for 14 hours, you would at least have a fair chance of arguing that they should have sought your agreement before going ahead with the extra work.

 

If you change your mind and decide to take on the garage, just shout and you'll get any help you need.