Jump to content


Claim Form from Aberystwyth County Court sent by CCI Legal


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4310 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I'll try and keep this short.

 

I trade car parts to and fro with a guy in Holland, for a couple of years, so there's always money outstanding one way or another.

 

Things go titsup on a trip we go on as friends in May 2008, when he lies to me about some circumstantial stuff, he storms off, sends me a brief email demanding I send him payment for some outstanding things. The demand totals £239. I don't respond, as the trip cost me quite a lot of money due to his deceit and this whole thing's been done on a 'friends' basis up til this point.

 

In July I get a letter from CCI Legal, demanding the money (plus charges, obviously) is paid. I request an invoice.

 

I get another couple of letters. Each time I request to see the invoices. After the second leter I turn around a counter claim for the costs he incurred to me in May. I get an email saying they're putting the case on hold.

 

I get nothing until I get a text in March of this year, demanding that I phone them. I call them and ask for the invoice, which I've still not seen. They promise to send the invoice.

 

I get another text demanding that I call them. I email back, asking that they call me. They call me (!!!) last Thursday and I explain I've asked repeatedly for the invoice, but seen nothing. The CCI Legal operative on the phone says they'll send the invoice along with the court claim form, which I suggest is a little keen, as I've not seen the invoice at any point.

 

I get the Claim Form on Monday, not for the Small Claims Court, but for Aberystwyth County Court. It has two invoice numbers on it, dated Feb 2008 and April 2008, which I've never seen, along with the interest and charges.

 

I get an 'invoice' sent through on the Friday, which has the guy's name at the top, with his address and phone number and a business name I've never seen '****** Spares'. There's then a list of items, minus a payment received (in goods), plus a payment received on my behalf (some money turned up in my Paypal account, from someone I didn't know, with no clear reason), giving a 'total owed as of today 15 May 2009 is, 239,72 british pounds'.

 

There's no invoice number, invoice date, due date, terms etc etc - the only amount that corresponds to one of the invoice number is the amount I had thrown into my Paypal account.

 

The claim form says 'Goods and Services full details of which have previously been supplied to the Defendant by the Claimant. Despite requests payment has not been received'. I've only had something purporting to be an invoice since the claim has been raised.

 

I presume I should complete the Acknowledgment of Service, but I'm not sure what to complete in the 'tick the appropriate box' section. I have a counter claim that already covers all but £50 of his claim.

 

As he's trying to stiff me for a meal and some other random stuff and has stayed at my place when he visited the UK, should I add in an overnight charge for accommodation, which will take the counterclaim to roughly the value of his original claim and offer to pay the difference?

 

Should I ensure my counterclaim is higher than his claim (there are a few other expense items I can add on)?

 

The guy's based in Holland. Does that make any odds to his claim through UK courts? Does this impact on the 'I intend to contest jurisdiction' box?

 

Acording to the documents, I have from the County Court I need to spin the acknowledgement of service back to them in the next few days (by registered post, obviously). Once I have confirmation of which box I should tick I presume this is the right thing to do.

 

While I don't want a CCJ against my name for the sake of £200, I'm loathe to cave and just throw the money at this, as it's all pretty sketchy - debts owed by friends, where there have been a lot of contra trades through months and years and no invoice has been generated until now and that doesn't line up with the demands on the Claim Form.

 

Sorry for all that detail and thanks if you've got this far. Simple question - what should I do?

 

My current plan is to turn around the Acknowledgement of Service and then talk to a solicitor and go from there, but any guidance would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks for any advice or help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to be as factual as possible, try not to elaborate on your figures and back them up where possible with paperwork. it really isn't a case of who owes what, but a case of who can prove what to the judge. if you can show that your version has the most merit then hopefully a judge will offset yours and their claim leaving you (or them) to pay the remaining balance

 

I would suggest writing everything down chronologically, reference every income or expenditure, invoice or payment as it happened, and only charge for those things you can verify with paperwork. include any emails, letters or text messages

 

At the very least it will build a clear picture of how the debt (either way) was incurred and what the actual balance (if any) is

 

Adding in costs for accomodation and such will only make you look awkward if there was no agreement in place before the accomodation was used.

 

You will only have a CCJ on your record if a. they win and b. you don't pay within 30 days of the decision going against you

Hope this helps

 

 

If you feel that this site has helped you in any way please leave a donation if you can afford to do so.

 

If you feel that have been helpful please feel free to tip the scales.

 

 

The large print giveth, but the small print taketh away. ~Tom Waits, Small Change

 

 

Please note: i am not a qualified lawyer, any advice is offered in good faith and is based on my own and others experiences and a penchant for research and a desire to help others to empower themselves

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

My issue is that this was all done 'as friends' from the outset, until things turned ugly.

 

I have a lot of emails about this whole thing, but it's all pretty circumstantial.

 

I've offered (via CCI Legal, which may be an issue) to return some of the parts that he supplied, which were useless as they didn't fit - I've kept them in the box they were supplied in. I've not shipped them back as I never got confirmation that he would accept them back.

 

What's the situation with regards to contacting the guy directly, as I've not had contact with him since the incident. Obviously CCI are keen for me not to speak to him. Is there anything I'm going to 'break' by going to him direct?

Link to post
Share on other sites

As has already been said, you need to be factual and try to leave out the 'he said, I said' bits.

 

Choose a starting date for your calculations and and make 2 column him and you so to speak. Mention the lack of a binding contract either way and just give a very brief outline of your 'friendship/business relationship.

 

Make sure you have all the letters etc. between you and CCI to show you have repeatedly requested full details of how the claimed amount was arrived at.

 

Try and keep it as profesional as possible, leave out meals, stays etc. they really do not impact on the basics of this claim.

 

Some clarity will most definitely help you in both your defence and counter-claim.

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Try and keep it as profesional as possible, leave out meals, stays etc. they really do not impact on the basics of this claim.

 

Some clarity will most definitely help you in both your defence and counter-claim.

 

 

Sorry to bounce this back up - I'm just trying to finish off the defence form. The advice I got from a solicitor was that if there was no contract and no payment terms agreed, then it's not a legitimate debt, that I should outline the lack of any invoice and that this was an arrangement between friends.

 

He's included a meal he paid for in the list of things he wants paid - there is no invoice, just a list (despite what the claim form says). You're saying leave out meals. Where do I stand with this - sorry, I'm a bit confused.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aberystwyth County Court is a small claims court. You must acknowledge service of the documents and later file a defence. It would be a good idea at this stage to write to the claimant (and the agents) asking - nay - demanding at this stage disclosure of their documents.

 

I was in a small claims trial last week as an observer and the claimants case was so full of holes it didn't take too much brainpower on the part of the judge to find for the defandant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for your response.

 

I've acknowledged service.

 

I'm filing my defence.

 

I've repeatedly requested invoices, but always on the phone, when they've called me.

 

The claim form details two invoices, with reference numbers. I've never seen either of those documents. The best the claimant could manage is a single sheet which lists out numerous things, but has no reference number etc on it.

 

The thing I'm stalling on is what are the characteristics of a legitimate debt - what does it need for someone to claim it in a small claims court?

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Hi, this is still rumbling onwards. I got notification that the claim was being transferred to Newport IOW, as that's where I'm living and working now.

 

I hadn't heard anything for a while and then I got a notice from Bristol County Court, which is an order, telling me that the defence had been struck out on the grounds that it fails to disclose full particulars of the defence.

 

I presume this is because I didn't include copies of the correspondence where I outlined the grounds on which I would settle. Providing those isn't an issue, although it sounds like I should probably have a chat to a solicitor about the details that I should provide.

 

What I'm really curious about is why the letter has come from Bristol County Court? I completed the initial form and returned that to Aberystwyth. The response, which is when I was told it would be transferred to Newport IOW included an Allocation Questionnaire. This was returned, as requested to Newport IOW. Why am I getting a response from Bristol now? I'm confused.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I've no idea what that means but thanks, I think....

 

 

:D the previous poster has clicked on the S.O.S. triangle at the bottom of your avatar against the post you made outlining your query.

 

Someone from the site team who will have more knowledge will hopefully be able to answer your questions. :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi DH,

 

Can you post on here a copy of your defence, and of the order received from Bristol CC.

 

I'm guessing that Bristol has juristiction over a certain area, including Aberystwyth. But you need to ascertain which court is NOW managing the case, Bristol or Newport IOW. Speak to the court(s) to do this.

 

Then you can decide where to send your amended defence. This is normally done with a Form N244 plus the fee required.

 

I presume this is because I didn't include copies of the correspondence where I outlined the grounds on which I would settle. Providing those isn't an issue, although it sounds like I should probably have a chat to a solicitor about the details that I should provide.

They are not there to help YOU. They want a result for their client, so don't rely on anything they say.

 

Better still, avoid speaking to them at all. And if you do have/want to communicate with them, keep it in writing or email.

Edited by slick132
typo

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
As has already been said, you need to be factual and try to leave out the 'he said, I said' bits.

 

Choose a starting date for your calculations and and make 2 column him and you so to speak. Mention the lack of a binding contract either way and just give a very brief outline of your 'friendship/business relationship.

 

Make sure you have all the letters etc. between you and CCI to show you have repeatedly requested full details of how the claimed amount was arrived at.

 

Try and keep it as profesional as possible, leave out meals, stays etc. they really do not impact on the basics of this claim.

 

Some clarity will most definitely help you in both your defence and counter-claim.

 

 

And just to add to the above CCI legal record ALL calls - so if they have called you then request a copy of the actual recorded conversation not a transcript.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the responses.

 

I have a letter from Bristol County Court, which says

 

The defence is struck out on the grounds that it fails to disclose adequate particulars of the defence. Unless by 4:00pm on 2nd September 2009 the defendant files a further defence that discloses full particulars of the defence, the claimant may enter judgement.

 

I rang Bristol County Court last week and the person I spoke to pulled the file and said it had been transferred to Bristol because there was a Bristol address on one of the pieces of correspondence. I explained that I was living and working on the IOW, so being in court in Bristol was going to make things rather difficult and they said that I should outline this along with my defence and that the case should be transferred back to the IOW. :confused:

 

Sounds like over-eager court officials to me - weird that all recent correspondance has gone to the IOW address.

 

Here's what I put in the Defence box in the defence and counterclaim form:

 

I have never received the invoices listed on the claim form.

 

No binding contract was ever agreed between the claimant and I.

 

No payment terms were ever agreed between the claimant and I.

 

I have offered to settle with the claimant on the baasis of a casual arrangement between friends on more than one occasion and he has not responded.

On the allocation questionnaire I put this in the 'any other information' box:

 

I have offered to settle with the claimant twice: 3rd July 2008 and 29th June 2009.

 

The claimant has not responded to either offer.

 

No invoice was sent until after the claim form was issued.

 

No contract was ever agreed.

 

No payment terms were ever agreed.

What further defence do I need to make?

 

I have the various email correspondance here - him saying 'I want this money....' and me saying 'no, you've cost me all this...'.

 

The thing is that the correspondence is all 'personal' as it's was between two friends who were falling out. How should I handle this defence? :confused:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi DH,

 

Sorry but you should also post the claimant's Particulars of Claim, so we can see how your Defence can properly address the POC.

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, here's what the claim form says:

 

Brief details of claim:

 

Goods and Services

full details of which have previously been supplied to the Defendant by the Claimant. Despite requests payment has not been received

 

 

Then it lists two invoices, which have never been provided. The invoices list invoice dates and due dates, which have never been agreed or provided. I then have a separate page, which has a list of items and packets provided to me. It includes a meal during a trip last May!.

 

This has no invoice number or other details, but talks about part-payments being made '(in Goods)' and 'payment received on my behalf'.

 

The original email listing out a demand for payment even included a line 'Goats cheese with peppers swapped for Bisto', FFS.

 

I've never had sight of either of the invoices, even now. I have offered to settle the outstanding amount twice and had no response at all.

 

Whenever I asked CCI Legal to see the invoices they said 'we'll get them to you' and I never received anything, so I never paid anything.

 

Aaargh.

 

Thanks for any help, folks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

taking a peek.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The burden of proof is on the claimant to prove their case.

If you are not in reciept of any documents which allow you to properly defend,then it looks like pre action protocols were not followed.

I dont think there should be too much emphasis on the fact that you have tried to settle ammicably,because you are the defendant and it is the claimant who has to decide whether to pursue with the case or not,or agree to any proposals for settlement.

The particulars of claim are very vague to say the least.

If the email correspondence is not priviledged,then you can refer to it,certainly if there is stuff in there in which you need to rely on,then its a must,as difficult as it may seem.

At the end of the day the Court is going to look at whats on the table from both sides.

Are the invoices from a legitimate company,or the one that you believed that you were dealing with ?

 

If not have you got anything from the past to reconcile and submit ?

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for everyone's help on this. Unfortunately I kinda 'caved in' and paid it today

 

I sat down today and talked through the situation with a mate who said 'just pay it'. I'm moving house shortly and I really needed to make sure this didn't fall like a big fat turd on my credit record, as I went to get another mortgage.

 

I'm utterly gutted to 'just' cave-in after the aggravation from the cock who's pulled this on me, but I can't risk losing this and screwing up my credit record at this point.

 

Many thanks for your help. I really appreciate it but I just don't think it's worth risking my credit score at this time over what is in some ways, just pride, after getting run several hundred miles around Europe and having my hospitality abused.

 

Sometimes you have to take a fall to win the long-game. :Cry:

 

(that was said through gritted teeth BTW).

 

Thanks again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI DH,

 

The choice was always yours to make and, sometimes, it's good to know which battles to fight.

 

All the best. :)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...