eBay & iQor - Under 18 - Help Please :)

[Parsons]

Hello,

 

I am under 18 - please don't inform me I can't have an eBay account until the age of 18, I understand this and now understand my stupidity with registering, however I endeavour to seek advice about my current issue.

 

It all happened when PayPal suspended my account in late 2008 - about 7 months ago now - and I had listings on eBay for selling things, now my account on eBay was also suspended and I couldn't cancel the listings, people purchased items and of course, eBay charge a final value fee to the seller which is a percentage of the item listing's final sale value.

 

Now because my PP was suspended, I couldn't purchase from supplier meaning I couldn't fulfill orders, so I proceeded to refund with a full explanation of the reasons. Completed all refunds and eBay finally ended my listing.

 

When you make a refund, final value fees should also be returned by eBay to the seller, although in my case they were not. I contacted them via email only to receive a precanned response informing me of my suspension - which of course I already knew about

 

So I left it thinking no more action would be taken. Received several emails on a monthly basis containing an invoice for the £288.14 in question, each time I received one I sent a new email to eBay explaining the debt is for final value fees which should have been refunded in the first place - again, precanned responses.

 

After 4 months, I received a letter from NCO Europe demanding payment for £308.14 - note that this is £20 more than eBay state I owe. I still received emails from eBay each month which confused me as to who I owed the debt. I ignored the letters as I came to the knowledge that NCO have no legal powers nor employ bailiffs. I heard nothing from them since, until today...I received a letter from iQor - only to add to the confusion of who I owe the debt to - stating I owe them £308.14 which they have been instructed by ebay to recover - again notice the extra £20 they are incurring

 

They are threatening legal action, I am 16 years of age and again, I know I shouldnt have been in ownership of an eBay/PayPal account and that they could in theory take me to court for fraud (Correct??) but I need help to resolve this issue, can they hold me legally responsible for the debt, and if not, what steps should I take to resolve this debt.

 

Also, finally, will this go on my credit record or as the debt cannot be held against me, will it just be removed from such report?

 

Thanks for reading and hope to receive some answers soon, appreciate your time.

[mr.ton]

With regards to the DCA's....

They are all vultures & will pounce at the slightest opportunity.

Fact is they have no legal powers to money off you whatsoever, only a county court does.

They will just threaten you in the hope that you pay up - but wont actually do anything if you dont.

[Parsons]

Thanks mr.ton but is there any way I can default the debt as I am under the age of 18. I read somewhere that you can, because cannot be legally tied to a contract.

[noomill060]

"When you make a refund, final value fees should also be returned by eBay to the seller"

 

How did you do the refunding?

 

Did you use the "Buyer and seller mutually agree not to continue transaction" feature?

 

 

 

Have they written to you stating they will take legal action against you?

[Parsons]

I refunded days after the transaction, refunding direct via PayPal. eBay haven't written to me stating so, but NCO Europe, and now iQor have/are threatening to take me to court. I just finished school and want no trouble, they're so inconsiderate, I know, I was wrong for opening an account but I just want to sort this out.

 

Should I send them a CCA or write/ring them to tell them of my age. Should I fax them a copy of my passport as proof of age etc? Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

[shinobi101]

I wouldn't send them copies of personal documents without getting a lot more advice first.

 

Don't sign anything you send them.

 

Doesn't the legal responsibility to obtain proof of age rest with the service provider?

 

To buy alcohol, parsons would need proof of age (18 or over) but the responsibility to check is with the retailer.

 

Haven't ebay broken the law by failing to establish proof of age?

[noomill060]

I think you need to talk to a solicitor, tell them what happened, that you know youve been a bit of a muppet, and get them to let NCO know how old you are.

 

Maybe even a chat down your local police station- you are young enough to have special legal rights against this sort of crap (hence the no under 18s rule!)

 

Could you talk to your mum or dad about this? If not, how about telling a teacher that you get on with?

 

You're too young to be worrying about this sort of trouble. If all else fails, talk to the cops- they have ways of dealing with this sort of thing.

 

You've just been a wally, you're not a criminal - so dont worry.

Edited June 15, 2009 by noomill060

[noomill060]

Keep all the letters thay have sent you, particularly any which threaten legal action.

 

As you're under 18, no legal action for any debt be taken against you.

[Parsons]

Thanks so much for your support so far. Do you think the Citizens Advice Bureau can do anything for me, because I don't have enough money to go see a solicitor, sounds daft an' all but I don't but if it comes to it, will have to work something out.

 

I don't know if I could talk to my Dad, he's 50 something old and he's kind of a straight cut guy, manages his finances well etc and I don't think he'd take to kindly to the news. And I just left school so no luck there either.

 

Any idea what the police could do, I don't know if they would take me seriously, I have never had to deal with anything like this. I know I've been a wally, I'm just worried about credit report and not being able to get a mortgage when I'm older etc.

[cerberusalert]

As i see it there are several issues here which in my opinion would prevent Paypal & their cronies going anywhere near a court. The first is that Paypal are in breach of the The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 by not being duly diligent in ensuring that the a/c holder was who they say they are & that includes ensuring that they were of legal age. Secondly, they would find it extremely difficult to register any information on your credit file simply because you don't have one. Thirdly they cannot take a minor to court for a debt for which they are not legally responsible.

 

Personally I would write to the DCA & Paypal mentioning the above & remind them that if they were stupid enough to try any enforcement action, not only would they lose but the resulting publicity would be phenomenally detrimental to them both whilst you would be protected by your age.

[Parsons]

Ok, I'm not the best at writing, could anyone be so so kind as to whip up a quick template, if not I'll do my best but I don't want to make a fool of myself, after all, need to make a positive impression.

 

Thanks guys for your help, it's really reassured me that nothing bad is going to happen, I've learnt my lesson so to speak.

[Parsons]

I think it would be best to write a letter to iQor and eBay rather than PayPal as it is eBay who have instructed iQor to collect the fees. Although iQor seem to have added £20.00 to the original amount that eBay say I owe...isn't that illegal?

 

I'm trying to construct a letter that sounds like I know what I'm talking about, but having a little trouble, any ideas on what to put in? Thanks alot you guys.

[cerberusalert]

On October 3, 2002, PayPal became a wholly owned subsidiary of eBay.

[cerberusalert]

For the minute just write to iQor and tell them the a/c is in dispute with ebay and they should return it to their client because they cannot legally pursue you for the alleged debt because you are under eighteen & cannot be legally held responsible for any alleged debt.

[noomill060]

They are unlikely to believe you if you just write and tell them you are underage.

 

A call to your local Trading Standards would be more useful. Make sure they realise that you are under age, made a bit of a muppet of yourself and got in over your head in something dont understand fully and being chased for a debt which you have way of paying due to just having finished school.

 

By the way- good on you for trying Ebay! Best of luck with your next business venture.

[cerberusalert]

Once they have been told that he was underage it is their responsibility to check the facts, he doesn't have to prove anything. Besides, give them enough rope & they'll hang themselves.

[noomill060]

I dont think he/she sould really be trying sort this out for themselves.

 

Parsons- Go see a solicitor, just call in and ask if they could help - tell them you're just 16 and desparately in need of legal advice.

 

At the very least, because you are vulnerable due to your age, they should give you the time of day and point you in the right direction of an adult who can help.

 

Dont try and do this yourself. Its difficult and scary enough for people three or four times your age to deal with these scumbags alone.

[noomill060]

And for God's sake, tell your Dad.

 

OK, he's going to be mad, probably quite reasonablely fkd off with you, but that is what parents are for- overreacting and being silly, but he'll calm down and help. Thats the deal when you're a Dad!

 

(And tell you what, I be pretty damn proud of you for trying to make a few quid on Ebay and you sound to have been doing pretty well by the sound of things, too!)

[noomill060]

God, when I think of the scrapes I got myself into...seemed totally overwhelming and dreaded telling my dad -

 

"I've just smashed up your company car- again. Sorry dad!",

 

"Just been done for no insurance",

 

"I owe the bank £500 because I spent my entire student grant on chocy digestives, lager and curry"

 

"Ive got Sarah/Jayne/Gillian/Caroline/Charlotte pregnant"

 

 

(Yeah, OK, he ripped my head everytime, but sharing the news of the latest disaster did help and thats what Dads are for!)

 

Good luck.

[Crapstone]

Even though you are underage they can still chase you but it depends on what the debt is and your standing in life. But if you lied and said you were over 18 then there is not a lot they can do about it as you haven't obtained anything other than a debt to them so strictly speaking they should tighten up their own procedures.

 

Ask your Dad to help you out. I think he'd be impressed he has such

a budding entrepreneur in the family, I know I would be.

[Crapstone]

noomill060,

 

You've been around the block a bit if you got Sarah/Jane/Gillian/Caroline and Charlotte pregnant! Didn't you learn the first time .

 

Your poor Dad!

[2Grumpy]

I thought that a friend of mine was bad enough after 3. 5 does seem excessive.

 

If you look back, the alleged debt is for fees that should have been refunded.

 

There is no debt.

 

EBay / PayPal should have ensured that the OP was over 18 - just like buying booze, it's the shop's problem.

 

Tell Dad / teacher what's happening

 

Talk to the CAB - they are good at communicating with this type of ****. The **** will realise that you are under 18 if the CAB tell them that you are.

 

Also tell Trading Standards.

 

You don't need to accept any blame. EBay / PayPal let you do this when they shouldn't have. Then they have let things go wrong (no refund of fees) when they shouldn't have. Only thing you didn't do was notice the warning about over 18.

[spamheed]

We dads are pretty good at dealing with their childrens stuff, much more so than dealing with our own. I'd be annoyed at the prospect of some "organisation" or other trying to pick on my kid, whether they were in the right or not.

 

Of course you will get your ar*e chewed a bit and be given an introduction to the old "waggy finger" and there is a lesson to be learnt here, but telling your dad may be the best thing you've ever done

 

Look at it this way, would you rather have your dad on your side, or theirs, if you tell him what's occured at least you get your tuppence in first.

 

I would also be inclined to contact trading standards in the first instance, it is Ebay and Paypals processes that are flawed, you are underage, this is written into statute in black and white.

 

They are wrong, you are right, tell your dad

[2Grumpy]

We dads are pretty good at dealing with their childrens stuff, much more so than dealing with our own. I'd be annoyed at the prospect of some "organisation" or other trying to pick on my kid, whether they were in the right or not.

 

Of course you will get your ar*e chewed a bit and be given an introduction to the old "waggy finger" and there is a lesson to be learnt here, but telling your dad may be the best thing you've ever done

 

That's right

 

I'm helping / have helped my son out with dealing with 2 banks re overdrafts, 1 credit card & 1 orange contract & 1 ex landlord when all he wanted to do was crawl into bed & hide.

[phoenix11]

Can I make a suggestion which is worth trying first.

 

Contact Richard Ambrose at eBay - he's the Head of Trust and Safety and if you explain as you've done in your opening post (keep it a bit shorter) adding that as you were suspended you were not able to recover your final value fees by mutual cancellation.

 

Add the short bits here about the DCA's not accepting that you're underaged and that this matter needs to be closed asap before the actions of the DCA force this into the public arena.

 

Richard's email is: [email protected] This email is in the public domain as it's the ID he posts with on the eBay boards.

 

That way, if there's any further complaint to make, you can show that you've given eBay every chance to sort this one out and if necessary, could have some come-back on eBay.