Can this debt be erased if the DCA can't produce the necessary documents?

[dandabyron]

Hi there,

 

I had a £20k debt with Egg that they sold on to a DCA. I was already paying off set amounts to Egg under a CCCS voluntary arrangement. When I learned the debt had been sold on to the DCA I used the template letters to ask for the necessary proofs of assignment etc etc.

I have been receiving from the DCA every 21 days (for a couple of years) a letter saying they are still looking for the documents and until they find them any action to recover this debt is on hold. I'm still paying around £400/month to the DCA via CCCS but if there's a chance I can erase this debt "legally" then that's £400/month I can use against my other debts.

I would be very very grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction, please.

 

Kindest regards.

Dave

[sea-sidelady]

Thread moved to the debt forum. You will get more help and advice in here.

[woody1066]

It does not erase the debt it makes it unenforcable in a court. They will continue to trash your credit file but there is nothing they can legally do to enforce the debt

[Pinky69]

Did you ask them for a copy of the agreement? If they cannot produce a copy of the original agreement, you can withhold payment until such times as they do. The debt will not be erased but it means they cannot enforce it in court. The problem with CCCS is that they don't like you removing any of your creditors from the list, even though it is none of their business. They are not supporting you. Like the creditors, all they are bothered about is getting the money to the creditors and this is because they are financed by the creditors and he who pays the piper calls the tune. If any of these arrangements go wrong, the CCCS will not raise a finger to help you.

 

I had a CCCS plan until November 2007 and it was an administrative shambles. I sent CCA requests to all my creditors. They either had unenforceable agreements, no agreements at all or just application forms. The debts were passed to DCAs and eventually they all gave up because it costs them money to chase the debt and in time it doesn't become worth their while. Once they know that you know there is no enforceable agreement, they back off. I owed £48000 and most of it has now been written off. Of the small residue, the DCAs have gone. I am now down to getting the last 3 defaults removed from my credit files. CCCS are good at taking the heat of but they are not a long-term solution to debt.

[dandabyron]

Thanks sea-sidelady for moving the thread to a more appropriate forum

 

Thanks also Pinky69 for your feedback . I would be grateful on more advice on what to run with as far as CCCS goes. The (former) Egg debt is probably matched by the Barclays debt (an overdraft & loan account).

 

Would the CCCS play ball if I were to tell them to stop paying the Egg DCA and re-distribute the funds amongst the other creditors? Or would CCCS decide to stop channelling my payments at all? I would be quite happy to set up standing orders with the other creditors directly anyway.

 

Dave

[mr.ton]

£400 per month?

Has this amount been authorised by a county court?

If not, stop all payments immediately - demand full refund & report them to the OFT/trading standards.

[diddydicky]

Thanks sea-sidelady for moving the thread to a more appropriate forum

 

Thanks also Pinky69 for your feedback . I would be grateful on more advice on what to run with as far as CCCS goes. The (former) Egg debt is probably matched by the Barclays debt (an overdraft & loan account).

 

Would the CCCS play ball if I were to tell them to stop paying the Egg DCA and re-distribute the funds amongst the other creditors? Or would CCCS decide to stop channelling my payments at all? I would be quite happy to set up standing orders with the other creditors directly anyway.

 

Dave

 

CCCS will ONLy arrange payment to your creditors - they will not advise you on legality of the debts - they will cock you up if you try to negotiatied anything other than monthly payment through them

 

was your original request for a copy of your agreement under s78 cca and did you send it recorded delivery and keep a copy? alternatively have you kept a copy of a letter from them acknowledging that they received your request/cant find the document?

 

if the answer to all the above is yes - stop paying use the template letter to advise them they have failed to comply

 

if no then get a s78 request off pronto

[dandabyron]

was your original request for a copy of your agreement under s78 cca and did you send it recorded delivery and keep a copy? alternatively have you kept a copy of a letter from them acknowledging that they received your request/cant find the document?

 

if the answer to all the above is yes - stop paying use the template letter to advise them they have failed to comply

 

if no then get a s78 request off pronto

 

The answer to all 3 (copy, recorded delivery, and every copy of their letter each 21 days since April 2007 saying they can't find the docs and are liaising with Egg). I'll look up the template letters and send one off. I've already instructed CCCS to stop paying them and to re-distribute the payment amongst the other creditors. Let's see where this goes. Many many thanks! I just wish I'd got off my backside sooner

[diddydicky]

The answer to all 3 (copy, recorded delivery, and every copy of their letter each 21 days since April 2007 saying they can't find the docs and are liaising with Egg). I'll look up the template letters and send one off. I've already instructed CCCS to stop paying them and to re-distribute the payment amongst the other creditors. Let's see where this goes. Many many thanks! I just wish I'd got off my backside sooner

 

and thereby is a wish we probably all have made- still better late than never

[diddydicky]

ok then first step lets get the ball rolling with this letter (recorded delivery of course)

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Your Ref Account xxxxxxxxxx ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me with a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On*XXXXXXXl 2007*I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8

.

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before* you enter into a default situation.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on* XXXXXXl 2007.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a*true copy*of the*executed agreement*that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.*

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title:-

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8*

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequently any legal action you may pursue will be averred to as both unlawful and vexatious.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. You have used to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a “legal right” . you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

I think that I have been more than tolerant in awaiting your finding of this information and it is my belief that in fact these documents do not exist, therefore should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me in writing with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[veryweary]

Just a comment about CCCS redistributing your monthly payment. Under identical circumstances to your own ie no CCA and also a letter from Trading Standards telling the DCA to back off until they provided one, CCCS cancelled our DMP as soon as the DCA insisted they resume payment and I refused.

 

I agree 100% with pinky69 . Perhaps CCCS have changed the way they work, but meantime I'd keep a close eye on what CCCS do with your account distributing your payments.

 

Good Luck:)

[andydd]

£400 per month?

Has this amount been authorised by a county court?

If not, stop all payments immediately - demand full refund & report them to the OFT/trading standards.

 

 

I'd suggest stopping payment (or asking CCCS to stop, which must be possible), once you are certain that no valid agreement exists. Have you SARed them too ?

 

'Demand full refund'!.Thats very optimistic !.. Why on earth would any Credit card or DCA do that ?..Rememeber we are talking about the enforceability of the agreement not wether the money is actually owed, there is a difference.