Paypal witholding my money in 2 accounts

[middenmess]

Elana--ebay interpret the law in the same way as DCA's do.

 

As Bookie says their T & C's are suspect to say the least.

 

If you were the buyer in this situation what would you have done?

[thecookiemonster]

Cookie--basically you don't want to listen to sound advice so I'm unsure as to why you started this thread.

 

You're convinced that you are in the right and want someone to agree with you but that's not going to happen.

 

Guess you'll find out the hard way.

 

I do not think i am in the right neither do i think i am in the wrong.

 

If i received payment last friday and booked collection for monday and the couriers failed to turn up on monday and again on wednesday is that my fault?

 

Also i did inform the buyer of this but got nothing but nasty messages back even though i informed him that i would get a different courier to pick up the item on monday and he would get it next tuesday or wednesday!

[Elenathion]

Ebay allows a buyer to open a dispute 10 days after the sale so if they paid on the 3rd, they can open a dispute on monday the 13th for non delivery. If that happens, its possibly out of your hands and you may have to provide a refund.

[middenmess]

Cookie--did you actually book DHL to collect or did you use a DHL re-seller?

 

I dread to ask but did you pay full insurance to cover the laptop---I'm betting that you're going to say that would be the buyers responsibility and then we're into a whole new arguement!!

[thecookiemonster]

If i send the item on monday and they were to open a dispute then i could click on the part that says the item has already been sent and provide tracking information.

[Elenathion]

Elana--ebay interpret the law in the same way as DCA's do.

 

As Bookie says their T & C's are suspect to say the least.

 

If you were the buyer in this situation what would you have done?

 

If I was the buyer I'd be filing a claim with ebay on monday for non delivery. Until then, the seller doesn't have any right to request a refund.

 

I'm not agreeing with thecookiemonster at all, I just don't think that telling them that they have to provide a refund is correct. They have to provide the item.

[thecookiemonster]

Cookie--did you actually book DHL to collect or did you use a DHL re-seller?

 

I dread to ask but did you pay full insurance to cover the laptop---I'm betting that you're going to say that would be the buyers responsibility and then we're into a whole new arguement!!

 

I used a re-seller i think, I'm not sure whether i paid full insurance i have absolutely no idea but i do have proof via bank statements and emails that the collection and delivery was booked and i've got copies of messages i have sent to them complaining because they hadn't turned up on the monday and on the wednesday.

[Bookworm]

I'm well aware of the DSR but if you're saying that the ebay T&C regarding this is wrong can you provide any links to that effect?

Obviously not if you need to ask.

 

Statutory Instrument 2000 No. 2334

 

Relevant part:

 

Contracts to which these Regulations apply

4. These Regulations apply, subject to regulation 6, to distance contracts other than excepted contracts.

 

Excepted contracts

5. - (1) The following are excepted contracts, namely any contract -

 

 

• (a) for the sale or other disposition of an interest in land except for a rental agreement;
   
  (b) for the construction of a building where the contract also provides for a sale or other disposition of an interest in land on which the building is constructed, except for a rental agreement;
   
  © relating to financial services, a non-exhaustive list of which is contained in Schedule 2;
   
  (d) concluded by means of an automated vending machine or automated commercial premises;
   
  (e) concluded with a telecommunications operator through the use of a public pay-phone;
   
  (f) concluded at an auction.
   
  

• Please note the exceptions. It doesn't state anywhere that a certain type of long-distance purchase is exempt against another. E-bay, despite the people's perception, are not an auction site, they are a "marketplace". So the exception about auctions doesn't apply, and therefore, purchases made on e-bay are subject to the DSR.
  

• Furthermore, as I previously said, there is in fact no formation of contract until all the terms have been fulfilled, and without money having changed hands, there is no contract. E-bay are trying to finesse this by saying "oh, DSR don't apply" and if you want to take it to the letter, they are correct, but it is sophistry: DSR can't apply where there is no contract and there is no contract formed if the goods haven't been paid for.
  

• Strictly speaking, the ONLY ones which form a proper contract are the BIN where you must make immedate payment, as the contract will be formed once payment has been made.
  

Edited July 10, 2009 by Bookworm
typos - sorry, on heavy painkillers right now.

[Elenathion]

Obviously not if you need to ask.

 

Statutory Instrument 2000 No. 2334

 

 

Interpretation

3. - (1) In these Regulations -

"supplier" means any person who, in contracts to which these Regulations apply, is acting in his commercial or professional capacity

 

This doesn't apply to a private seller, whether or not it is through an auction.

[middenmess]

cookie-you were trying to save money by using a reseller and as you have now found they are not as reliable as the 'real' courier.

 

In your best interests it will pay you to send the laptop by Royal Mail Special delivery on Monday for guaranteed delivery by 1pm Tuesday.

 

It's now odds on that the buyer will refuse to sign for it and it will be returned to you meaning that you will still have to refund but will also be out of pocket for the postage as well.

 

You cannot come out on top in this matter.

 

The more effort you put in to trying to send it to the buyer,the more you will lose.

[Elenathion]

cookie-you were trying to save money by using a reseller and as you have now found they are not as reliable as the 'real' courier.

 

In your best interests it will pay you to send the laptop by Royal Mail Special delivery on Monday for guaranteed delivery by 1pm Tuesday.

 

It's now odds on that the buyer will refuse to sign for it and it will be returned to you meaning that you will still have to refund but will also be out of pocket for the postage as well.

 

You cannot come out on top in this matter.

 

The more effort you put in to trying to send it to the buyer,the more you will lose.

 

Totally agree.

 

You have to send it though as if they file a claim you need to be able to provide proof that you did, in fact send it.

[thecookiemonster]

cookie-you were trying to save money by using a reseller and as you have now found they are not as reliable as the 'real' courier.

 

In your best interests it will pay you to send the laptop by Royal Mail Special delivery on Monday for guaranteed delivery by 1pm Tuesday.

 

It's now odds on that the buyer will refuse to sign for it and it will be returned to you meaning that you will still have to refund but will also be out of pocket for the postage as well.

 

You cannot come out on top in this matter.

 

The more effort you put in to trying to send it to the buyer,the more you will lose.

 

The buyer paid £10 for delivery therefore i booked a courier that would cost me that amount, If he had paid £20 for delivery i would have sent it via Royal Mail Special Delivery.

 

Like i said above i cannot afford to refund so he would have to take me to Court and i would have to pay in installments.

 

I will get plenty of people as witnesses so that i can prove it was 100% fully working before it is sent as i will be unpacking it to do this, I'm not having the buyer damage the laptop then claim his money back too.

 

If he doesn't sign for it surely that's his problem? I'm sending the item he paid for so he should sign for it and end this matter.

 

Oh and i cannot afford to pay out another £20+ for Special Delivery especially when DHL still have just over £10 of mine, I have enough to book another courier and will do so.

[Elenathion]

The buyer paid £10 for delivery therefore i booked a courier that would cost me that amount, If he had paid £20 for delivery i would have sent it via Royal Mail Special Delivery.

 

If you had put £1 for delivery but it cost you £10, that would be your fault for not stipulating enough and you would have to make up the difference.

 

You need to pay for a decent postage service for this.

[thecookiemonster]

If you had put £1 for delivery but it cost you £10, that would be your fault for not stipulating enough and you would have to make up the difference.

 

You need to pay for a decent postage service for this.

 

I pay what the buyer paid for postage, If he wanted it sent by Special Delivery i would have done so but it would have been down to him to pay the extra costs, When i have bought things i have had to pay extra for Special Delivery and the same goes for everyone else.

[Bookworm]

In reply to Elenathion, (damnit, I wish you lot would stop typing that fast, lol):

 

Yes, I know. And? I didn't think this had been brought up as an issue? :-?

 

Yes, if seller is a private individual, then DSR don't apply. But you're changing the direction of the discussion, your assertion was that a contract was entered into once the auction ended and that the buyer was legally obliged to accept the goods? :-?

 

Ok, I accept I assumed there was a business-consumer relationship, of which I have no confirmation one way or another (although re-reading the posts, you may have a point, such a lack of professionalism would be worrying. Not impossible, just worrying.).

 

IF seller is a trader, then DSR apply.

If seller is a private seller, then DSR don't apply. Nevertheless, all I can see is the buyer then forcibly receiving the goods, rejecting them as "not as described" under SOGA, and we're back to square one. :-|

Edited July 10, 2009 by Bookworm
clarifying

[thecookiemonster]

I have emailed the buyer and asked him if he wants it sent on monday if he refuses then obviously i cannot send it, I will see what they say.

[Bookworm]

Anyway, it's gettign late, my typing is getting worse and we are not getting anywhere, so to sum up:

 

Do we all agree that forcibly sending the goods to someone who has intimated he doesn't want them is a recipe for disaster and won't end up satisfactorily for seller?

 

Yea or nay?

[middenmess]

Cookie-

 

For ----s sake wake up and listen!!

 

Buyer paid £10 for delivery because that is what you charged him--it is your responsibility to ensure that the laptop arrives with him safely and insurance on any item is for your benefit not the buyers!

 

DHL do not have your money --the reseller does.

 

You are in the same position with them as your buyer is with you--you've both paid for something that you have not received!

 

Using a £10 delivery service was never going to be the way to send a delicate electrical item and was asking for trouble.

 

This will be my last post as you are intent on self destruct.

[Elenathion]

In reply to Elenathion, (damnit, I wish you lot would stop typing that fast, lol):

 

Yes, I know. And? I didn't think this had been brought up as an issue? :-?

 

 

Hehe this is racing by isn't it.

 

Bookworm, this started in post 28 when you said that he can change his mind and get a refund without giving a reason. I didn't think that was accurate advice to be giving. Going over and over this isn't helping though so let's leave it there.

 

As for thecookiemonster, am I right in thinking that it's you that sets the postage on the item and not the buyer.

 

Edit - Middenmess beat me to that point hehe.

[Bookworm]

Ach, sod it, I'm off to bed.

 

Cookie, do what you want, just don't say you haven't been warned.

 

G'night all.

[thecookiemonster]

I've received a message from the buyer saying that he would like the item sent, So it will be sent as it should have been before the buyer started demanding a refund and making false and slanderous accusations.

[middenmess]

Hi Cookie-lets hope that this will be an end to the matter--please update the thread and let us all know if both parties are satisfied with the outcome.

[hightail]

However angry you are you now need to be as nice as pie to your buyer. You can't leave him negative feedback but he can for you and he could trash your star ratings. If you don't sell much this could ruin your seller scores and result in you being suspended. Don't let this happen if you need to use ebay.

[thecookiemonster]

However angry you are you now need to be as nice as pie to your buyer. You can't leave him negative feedback but he can for you and he could trash your star ratings. If you don't sell much this could ruin your seller scores and result in you being suspended. Don't let this happen if you need to use ebay.

 

I will probably close my ebay account once this matter is resolved, I've had enough of selling on ebay with the threats and false and slanderous accusations from this buyer, I could easily report him to the police or sue him for slander if i really wanted to but i'm sending the item and i hope that will be the end of the matter.

[Bookworm]

Indeed.

 

Apologise profusely for the delay, sorry the situation caused him so much anxiety, etc... It cost you nothing and could save you a really bad review. Forget about the threats etc, he probably over-reacted because he feared being taken in by a crook. So don't mention that, at all, just be extra nice, extra polite. It's even worth it going to Poundland and buying a 4 port hub extension for £1 and send it to him as well as an apology, anything to try and stop him leaving a stinking feedback. ;-)