overturning a ccj

[mr newbloke]

Hi All

 

Have been reading threads for some time but have now joined.

 

My question is: Can a CCJ in respect of an unsecured debt, subsequently demonstrated to be in flagrant breach of the CCA 1974, be overturned, and if so, how?

 

Briefly - cc debt 13k marbles, sold to Phoenix Sarl while awaiting copy of original agreement (several times of asking). Phoenix proceeded to judgement, upheld and upgraded to forthwith leading to securing on property. After ccj upheld, determined unenforceability due to prescribed terms. Debt will shortly revert to unsecured when forced sale goes through leaving massive shortfall.

 

Any input much appreciated.

[faza]

hi, did you go to court to defend the claim or was it given in default.

[mr newbloke]

Hi

 

Went to court to dispute size of installment awarded, but judge deemend what I could afford to be unreasonable and so gave up a forthwith. I didn't actually defend because at that stage, although there were strong doubts as to enforceability, these had yet to be verified. Didn't attend subsequent co hearing as I understood result was a foregone conclusion.

 

To clarify my original post, I have no interest in the removal of the judgement from the record, only whether it is possible for an agreement to be deemed unenforceable post ccj, on appeal as it were.

[postggj]

Hi Mr Newbloke And Welcome

 

Forced Sale Is It

Are The Dca Forceing You To Sell

We Can Stop This

So I Take It They Have A Charging Order

Same Old Story Ime Afraid

 

The First Thing To Do Is Get The Ccj Set Asside

 

You Need A Reason For This And A Realistic Chance Of Winning Any Claim

 

After That We Can Get The Charging Order Removed

 

It Will Cost You 75 Quid

 

You Will Need To Do An Sar Request For The Info

 

As You Have A Ccj A Cca Requestis No Good

 

That Will Be Direct To Marbles Or Who Ever Owns Them Now

 

When Is The Forced House Sale And Do You Want To Stop It

[mr newbloke]

Hi Postggj

 

Thanks for yur welcome.

 

No, have given up on house. Now repossessed and on market at £235k less than last offer received, which stalled in chain. Out of interest, that's a drop of more than 35% overnight.

 

I'm just interested in getting the unsecured (originally) HFC debt deemed unenforceable.

 

In your post you say with a ccj it's no good going with cca. Is that the answer I am seeking? Are you saying that the debt cannot be judged unenforceable once a judgement has been enforced i.e. there is no right of appeal in the civil courts?

[postggj]

No

 

What I Am Saying Is As A Ccj Has Been Granted, The Creditor Does Not Have To Comply With A Cca Request

 

But An Sar For The Agreement And All They Have On You, They Have To Comply

 

That Will Produce Computer Records

Default Notice

Agreements

 

Infact Every Thing

 

We Need This Info To Find Out What They Have Done Wrong And Get The Ccj Set Asside

 

Down Side Is It Costs Ten Quid And Can Take Up To 40 Days But Well Worth It

[mr newbloke]

When you say an SAR will reveal what they have done wrong - don't we already know i.e. the copy of the original agreement they have supplied is clearly unenforceable under cca 1974. Is this not enough to get the ccj set aside?

[trooper68]

When you say an SAR will reveal what they have done wrong - don't we already know i.e. the copy of the original agreement they have supplied is clearly unenforceable under cca 1974. Is this not enough to get the ccj set aside?

 

Hi Mr NewBloke

 

I did a SAR. The best thing I did. I gives a clear picture of your account to what they have on you or not.

 

There are templates on the forum, send it off to all parties involved, SOL's acting for them, don't sign it-print your name. Recorded delivery.

 

You will be suprised.

 

Trooper68

[mr newbloke]

Hi Trooper

 

I have seen the SAR format on this site previously, but as I said to your colleague, I have already received what must be the most damaging information from them via a section 77/78. At that stage there was no ccj so they had to comply (although they took their time). At about that time they sold the debt to this rabid european mob who just charged straight in, got the ccj and then the co (using HFC's original solicitors). I should have reacted more quickly and got the analysis of the agreement done, but that's life.

 

So, now I have evidence supplied by the original lender casting doubt on the legality of the agreement which the court has enforced on behalf of the subsequent assignee, is there an action I can bring to ask the court to void the debt as it would have done had it been aware of the facts in the first case?

[postggj]

Yes

 

Its Called Getting The Ccj Set Asside

 

Prob Take About Three Months

 

Do You Want To Go Ahead

But At The End Of The Day Its Up To A Judge To Agree Or Not

[faza]

hi, sorry i dont think i made myself clear, did the judgement order get issued in the small claims court or from a county court.

 

Hi

 

Went to court to dispute size of installment awarded, but judge deemend what I could afford to be unreasonable and so gave up a forthwith. I didn't actually defend because at that stage, although there were strong doubts as to enforceability, these had yet to be verified. Didn't attend subsequent co hearing as I understood result was a foregone conclusion.

 

To clarify my original post, I have no interest in the removal of the judgement from the record, only whether it is possible for an agreement to be deemed unenforceable post ccj, on appeal as it were.

[mr newbloke]

Hi Faza

 

County Court judgement as it was for £13k.

[Spamalot]

Hi Mr New Bloke,

 

Have a look at this and see if it rings any bells.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/192275-ccj-interest-debt.html

 

Spam.

[faza]

you could appeal the decision if you have new evidence which shows that the debt is not enforceable.

 

phone the court up, give them your case number and tell them you have new evidence and you would like to appeal. hopefully they will put you in the right direction.

 

if not, then what you have to do is, ask permission of the court which made the judgement for appeal giving your reasons and then see if your permission is granted.

 

if it is, then a judge one higher up from the one who gave the order will hear the case and has the ability to vary or set aside judgement, order a new hearing etc.

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert I might have made mistakes in what i have written. If you have found any mistakes please feel free to point them out. Anything posted on this forum is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as legal advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may be different for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an legal expert who can advise you after finding out more about your situation.

[Spamalot]

Hi,

 

The only way to overturn a CCJ is applying for a set aside of the judgement through filling out an N244 application. It will cost £75.

 

You can get help filling it out... most of us here have been there.

 

You just need a good reason to ask ie. evidence come to light, wasn't aware of your rights etc.

 

If you get the judgement set aside it will then be up to you to defend the claim from scratch.... unless of course it gets struck out for being a load of old hogwash!!!

 

Phoenix have bought a lot of unenforceable debts and taken them straight to the courts. It's up to the likes of us to stop them taking advantage of us.

 

Spam.

[Spamalot]

Here's another couple of threads that you mike like to read when you've got a few hours!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/139232-hfc-restons-charging-order.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/124572-hfc-no-agreement-amended.html

[faza]

hi you can only make an application to set aside judgement in a limited number of cases which i have listed below, otherwise you have to appeal the judgement.

 

When will the court agree to set aside a judgement?

 

 

The County Court rules set out when you can apply to set aside a judgment. For example:

• You may not have received the original claim form.
  
• You may have moved house and not had post from your previous address.
  
• An order was made against you in your absence in certain circumstances.
  
• There may be an error in the judgment.
  
• You want to put in a defence and did not have the opportunity to do this.
  
• The proceedings did not follow the court rules.
  

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert I might have made mistakes in what i have written. If you have found any mistakes please feel free to point them out. Anything posted on this forum is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as legal advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may be different for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an legal expert who can advise you after finding out more about your situation.

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

The only way to overturn a CCJ is applying for a set aside of the judgement through filling out an N244 application. It will cost £75.

 

You can get help filling it out... most of us here have been there.

 

You just need a good reason to ask ie. evidence come to light, wasn't aware of your rights etc.

 

If you get the judgement set aside it will then be up to you to defend the claim from scratch.... unless of course it gets struck out for being a load of old hogwash!!!

 

Phoenix have bought a lot of unenforceable debts and taken them straight to the courts. It's up to the likes of us to stop them taking advantage of us.

 

Spam.

[Spamalot]

hi you can only make an application to set aside judgement in a limited number of cases which i have listed below, otherwise you have to appeal the judgement.

 

When will the court agree to set aside a judgement?

 

 

 

The County Court rules set out when you can apply to set aside a judgment. For example:

• You may not have received the original claim form.
  
• You may have moved house and not had post from your previous address.
  
• An order was made against you in your absence in certain circumstances.
  
• There may be an error in the judgment.
  
• You want to put in a defence and did not have the opportunity to do this.
  
• The proceedings did not follow the court rules.
  

 

 

I am not a legal expert I might have made mistakes in what i have written. If you have found any mistakes please feel free to point them out. Anything posted on this forum is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as legal advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may be different for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an legal expert who can advise you after finding out more about your situation.

 

Exactly.

 

And the reason you use is 'didn't have an opportunity to defend 'because at the time you were ignorant of your rights as a consumer and how to go about it. Having researched your case you now believe that you can provide information which would lead to a successful defence.

 

With that you supply copies of defaults,

Dodgy agreements etc and then the judge decides if he thinks you've got a chance of a successful defence or not

and sets a hearing.

 

At least thats the way I've seen it done on here a few times.

 

Spam.

[mr newbloke]

Hi Spam

 

Read the thread - looks like you've made a good start towards a law degree!

 

What I took from it was the sense that, in order to gain opportunity for set aside, I would need more than convincing proof that the ca was unlawful (in my case there appeared to be no prescribed terms at all) and thatI simply didn't have time to establish it as unlawful and further, did not understand the implications of allowing the judgement to pass and to fight it later when I was in a position to establish the degree of its unlawfulness.

 

As I, therefore, did not enter a defence but rather admitted liability, I have the impression that as far as the court is concerned I only have myself to blame.

 

Do you concur?

[Spamalot]

Hi Mr N,

 

I think our posts have crossed..

 

Taking things from scratch,

 

Did you admit the whole claim or defend part of It?

 

Did you let them get judgement by default and then just try and change payment amounts?

[Spamalot]

Ok, Ignore the above post. (don't mean that snottily!! just re-read your thread )

 

In my humble opinion the best thing to do is this;

 

Send the SAR. If you can afford it, to the OC and Phoenix's Henchmen

 

Apart from the agreement they should send you statements,

the Notice of assignment,

Default notices and all sorts of other helpful things.

 

Out of interest WHO is named as Claimant on your CCJ and who are their 'Henchmen'

 

Is it Marlin, Mortimer Clarke or Restons.

[mr newbloke]

Hi Spam

 

I admitted, gave no defence. They were awarded 70 times more per month than I could obviously afford so I attended review hearing where judge gave them a forthwith, hence route to co.

[mr newbloke]

Ok, Ignore the above post. (don't mean that snottily!! just re-read your thread )

 

In my humble opinion the best thing to do is this;

 

Send the SAR. If you can afford it, to the OC and Phoenix's Henchmen

 

Apart from the agreement they should send you statements,

the Notice of assignment,

Default notices and all sorts of other helpful things.

 

Out of interest WHO is named as Claimant on your CCJ and who are their 'Henchmen'

 

Is it Marlin, Mortimer Clarke or Restons.

Gotta be quick to keep up with this.

 

Claimant - Phoenix/ Solicitors - Weightmans (who originally acted for HFC)

 

So, ref your earlier post, you're saying ignorance may turn out to be bliss and that the SAR(s) may reveal add more ammunition to the basic unenforceability argument.

 

Do you think the total lack of prescribed terms in the oa together with my lack of understanding of the process of questioning this might be sufficient of itself?

[Spamalot]

Gotta be quick to keep up with this.

 

Claimant - Phoenix/ Solicitors - Weightmans (who originally acted for HFC)

 

So, ref your earlier post, you're saying ignorance may turn out to be bliss Yes ;-) and that the SAR(s) may reveal add more ammunition to the basic unenforceability argument and Yes again.

 

Do you think the total lack of prescribed terms in the oa together with my lack of understanding of the process of questioning this might be sufficient of itself?

 

I think it would be safer to back things up with a bit more even if it's something like the amount of claim being made up of unlawful charges therefore the amount of claim is not valid etc.

 

Do you have any documentation at all?

 

If you haven't been served a notice of assignment or default notices then they have also terminated your agreement unlawfully...

 

There's so much you can throw at them once you get going.

 

If you have or can get hold of the POC then you can go through it bit by bit and see what you can defend.

 

Spam

[mr newbloke]

I think it would be safer to back things up with a bit more even if it's something like the amount of claim being made up of unlawful charges therefore the amount of claim is not valid etc.

 

Do you have any documentation at all?

 

If you haven't been served a notice of assignment or default notices then they have also terminated your agreement unlawfully...

 

There's so much you can throw at them once you get going.

 

If you have or can get hold of the POC then you can go through it bit by bit and see what you can defend.

 

Spam

Thanks Spam

 

They certainly lamped on some large amounts when they originally defaulted me, which they might have difficulty justifying given their are no prescribed terms with the agreement.

 

By the way - what is a POC?