Need Help Quick!! - Attatchment of Earnings Order

[TrappedInFrance]

Hi,

 

I've been out of the country for a few years - returned to the UK just before Christmas 2008 & have just got a job (sigh of relief).

 

Before leaving the UK in 2007 we were in quite a bit of debt, but just buried our heads in the sand & ignored it.... there was no court action or debt chasing letters at this stage.

 

Today I've come home from work & found a letter on the doorstep from the local court that says I have a CCJ registered against me at Northampton Court & that the claimant has now applied for an Attachment of Earnings Order.... I've got 8 days to reply.

 

I've no details of this court order - having read this site a little I'm sure it must be dodgy as I think it relates to a credit card my wife had from years ago. I'm thinking that I might be able to get the judgement set aside anyway (as I haven't been living in the UK, so no way could I have received the papers from the court)..... I just need a few pointers as to exactly what to do now in reply to the court papers?

 

I need to take the right action straight away & would really appreciate a 'step-by-step' on what I must do to get the immediate process stopped / delayed. I've found out how to apply to get the original judgement stopped, should I do this now or deal with my local court on this?

 

Help me please!

Edited June 13, 2009 by TrappedInFrance

[TrappedInFrance]

After reading a bit more tonight I think I understand the process a bit more - it seems like I cannot defend against the application for an attachment of earnings order... instead I do need to dispute the original judgment (sort of what I thought).

 

Can I just write to the court that has issued the notice of application for the attachment of earnings order & tell them that I have no idea what the claim refers to (as I have been out of the country) & ask for a delay whilst I sort it out with the original (Northampton) court?

 

I just need enough time to get the CCJ details from Northampton (I'll find out how on Monday) & then apply for the original judgment to be set aside... not sure how long that will take.

 

On the right track?

[questioning]

Hi, This poster r&b, has given a very good account of the process he is going through to set aside a CCJ from the past.

In fact he has two set asides on the go, one is here ,,,,,,,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/180864-finding-faulty-cca-agreements.html

The other is his Mint CCA thread.

If you read through his two threads you will find some very good info concerning set asides.

It may be the case that the AOE enforcement needs dealing with and this would only be stopped if the set aside were a sucess. I don't know that for sure I'm afraid which is why I would phone the court ASAP.

 

I would be very careful about the enforcement of attachment of earnings, as this is seeking enforcement you really need to ring the court and try and find out what you can do about this and explain your predicament.

The AOE gives only a small time frame for a response.

As you know if you fail to respond the attachment of earnings will go ahead, AFAIK they can also force you to go to court to look into your income, etc.

I have found the court staff to be very helpful if you talk to them nicely, on one occasion I had an extremely helpful lady who gave me the exact info I needed, this was info that I couldn't find the definite answer to, so the court staff really helped in the end. The first person I spoke to in the court really didn't know the exact answer, I rang again after a couple of hours and got a different member of staff, I asked my question again and all became crystal.

 

The easy part is finding out how you go about set aside, the hard part is knowing how to fend off the enforcement of AOE.

 

Hopefully someone who knows exactly what to do about the AOE will post.

Edited June 13, 2009 by questioning

[TrappedInFrance]

Up until 5am trying to find some information on this can't beleive how stressfull this is!

 

Am I right in thinking that getting the original CCJ set aside will also set aside a related attachment of earnings order (if it gets granted whilst I am dealing with the CCJ)?

 

I've done an online credit check & found the case number & date of the original CCJ.... I hope it will be a guaranteed set-aside due to the date - it was May 2008 when the CCJ happened. I left the UK in Jan 2007 (and the address where any papers must have been sent) and only returned in December 2008, to a different address & had no knowledge at all of this happening.

 

If that's the case perhaps I should just press on with getting a copy of the CCJ on Monday & then asking for it to be set aside?

 

This is a nightmare.

[questioning]

Up until 5am trying to find some information on this can't beleive how stressfull this is!

Yes it is stressful but it will get sorted as you are prepared to deal with it now.

 

Am I right in thinking that getting the original CCJ set aside will also set aside a related attachment of earnings order (if it gets granted whilst I am dealing with the CCJ)? Yes. I'm pretty sure this is correct.

 

I've done an online credit check & found the case number & date of the original CCJ.... I hope it will be a guaranteed set-aside due to the date - it was May 2008 when the CCJ happened. I left the UK in Jan 2007 (and the address where any papers must have been sent) and only returned in December 2008, to a different address & had no knowledge at all of this happening. I take it you have looked into how to go about the set aside and what sort of defence you have against the claim.

 

If that's the case perhaps I should just press on with getting a copy of the CCJ on Monday & then asking for it to be set aside?

Yes you do need to act asap, as I said last night you must address the enforcement.

You will see on the form that there is a box to tick and offer to pay yourself and give a good reason why you do not want your employer involved. A reason might be that it would affect the future prospect of promotion.

 

This is a nightmare. Try not to worry yourself sick, you will get it sorted.[/quote]

 

cheers Q.x.

[questioning]

Hi,

I've just read your first thread.

Taking that into account i wonder if the advice on that thread is an option you are considering. If it is then you would be best to concentrate on the enforcement and into BR. and not bother to attempt the set aside.

Its not clear what you intend to do.

If you are going with the BR then you really need to contact Nat. debt line, they are really helpful and you will be given step by step instructions on how to go about things.

 

Only you know what prospects you have and if there is any realistic chance to get yourself out of this debt. From what you say I go along with the replies on your other thread. You will get loads of help from this site if you choose that route. It seems the less stressful route giving you a fresh start in 6 yrs, Just my take on this from the little knowledge gained from your posts.

If you want to tackle these debts in a different way then again this site will give you loads of help but please don't ignore Nat. debt line, they are a very useful organisation on the end of the phone and are free.

 

Cheers Q.x.

[faza]

hi you have many options at this stage as long as you identify each problem and deal with them in the right order you can start to sort everything out.

 

firstly, by law you need to fill in that attachment of earnings form, you have to be truthful and dont worry when the court makes an order for payment, it will be reasonable if you do not fill it in you will have a visit from bailifs handing it you.

 

secondly, you need to start the ball rolling finding out what the debt is about and go about getting the original judgement set aside.

 

to get the original judgement set aside fill in form n244 stating your reasons and that you have a good chance of defending yourself.

 

this link explains setting aside a bit further:

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...rts/part13.htm

 

once the judgement has been set aside the claim will start again from the beginning.

 

now what you need to do is get hold of the original consumer credit agreement and a breakdown of the claim amount and all of the charges they have added to make the full claim amount.

 

if you can not get hold of all the details for the charges then you may consider this as your defence:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/204093-template-needed-embarassed-defence.html

 

but firstly you need to fill in that attachment of earnings order and get hold of a form n244 asap and ask for the judgement to be set aside, this is your first goal.

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert I might have made mistakes in what i have written. If you have found any mistakes please feel free to point them out. Anything posted on this forum is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as legal advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may be different for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an legal expert who can advise you after finding out more about your situation.

[TrappedInFrance]

Thankyou all - I really appreciate the advice!

 

Looking at the credit report, there are several other CCJs (I just ignored my debts before I left & have had no details up until now.... got to start facing reality) - so I will almost certainly be going down this path with others also.

 

They all will fall into the 'possibly dodgy' credit agreements area from the late 1990s... last credit card we got would be maybe 2003, so I'm gonna attack them all with the information I gather from here, reduce what I can & then make some plan to pay off the rest... gotta start somewhere

 

I now have a plan at least.

 

(i) Phone the local court on Monday AM & see if they will delay processing the attachment of earnings order (probably not?) and also get the date confirmed that I must have the completed forms back to the court.

 

(ii) Phone the original CCJ issuing court on Monday & get a copy of the original CCJ posted out to me.

 

(iii) I've downloaded the N244 form off the internet, will fill this in with as much detail as I can so that I'm ready to make application for set-aside as soon as the orignial CCJ copy arrives - am I safe to send a cheque in payment for the fee? Just worried about the signature business?

 

Feeling a bit better.... not much but it's a start.

[faza]

i think the court will just cash the cheque and not keep it on hand to match your signature against any cca's youve signed.

[questioning]

Just to clarify the attachment of earnings. You may already know this but its info for anyone else reading this thread who may not be informed.

Copied from the hmcs.

You can ask for an attachment of earnings order unless the defendant is:

• unemployed or self employed;
  
• a firm or limited company;
  
• in the army, navy or air force; or
  
• a merchant seaman.
  
• If you are not sure whether the defendant is employed, you can do any of the following:
  
  • Ask for the defendant to be questioned: called an 'order to obtain information' (see the guidance called How do I ask for an order to obtain information?).
    
  • Ask the court in the defendant's home area to search the attachment of earnings index. This index is a list of all the attachment of earnings orders against people living in that area. (This includes orders made by magistrates' courts). There is no fee for this.
    
  • The court will use this index to check whether the defendant has any other attachment of earnings orders against him or her.
    
  • If the defendant has another attachment of earnings order against him or her already, you can ask the court to join (or 'consolidate') your debt with those he or she already owes. You can get an attachment of earnings order in this way without having to pay a fee.
    
  • What if the defendant does not reply?
     
    If the defendant does not send back the form, the court will try to contact the defendant and get a 'statement of means'.
    A bailiff will serve an order telling the defendant to fill in a statement of means. If the defendant still does not return the form but the judge thinks the defendant knew about the attachment of earnings application, the judge may issue a warrant to arrest the defendant.
    The bailiff will arrest the defendant and may bring him or her to court to fill in a statement of means.
    
  • What does the court do with the statement of means?
     
    A court officer will look at the information given on the defendant's statement of means and decide how much the defendant can afford to pay.
    The officer will take into account how much the defendant needs to live on for food, rent or mortgage and essentials and to pay regular bills, such as electricity. This is called the 'protected earnings rate'. If the defendant earns more than the protected earnings rate, an order will be made.
    If the defendant is on a low wage, it may not be possible to make an attachment of earnings order.
    The order will be sent to the defendant's employer saying how much to take and when to take it. The order will be sent by the Centralised Attachment of Earnings System (CAPS) in Northampton, which will be responsible for collecting payments. You will be sent a copy of this order.
    The defendant can ask for the order to be suspended if he or she does not want the court to contact his or her employer. If the court agrees, they will tell the defendant to make regular payments direct to you.
    If the defendant has a suspended order and does not pay, or pays and then stops, you can use Form N446 (Request for reissue of post-judgment process (other than warrant)) to ask the court to send the order to the employer.
    

  The Problem with this being enforced is the court does not allow you as much to live on as they do if you to had just received the CCJ and offering to pay an amount from your surplus income. once enforcement takes place the amount allowed to live on is a lot stricter. One more thing, remember that you are only responsible for your own debts in your name, you are not responsible for a spouse. Although it asks on the AOE form what your spouse earns you must fill that part out but when it comes down to the expenses it is only what you pay for, not what your spouse pays for. lots of people get confused over this and think they are liable for their spouses debt.

[questioning]

i think the court will just cash the cheque and not keep it on hand to match your signature against any cca's you've signed.

 

I agree, pretty safe with the court.

what you can do though is add a dot or something else to your sig on a cheque then scan it and keep. lets face it the bank do not scrutinise sig's on cheques, (unless they are for a huge amount)

I've actually done my own dodgy sig to creditors as I'm rather para' and kept plenty of copies of the cheque. Never had any comeback from doing so and thats going back months & months now. They would look pretty bad if they got work and reproduced that dodgy sig. Not that they would!

 

Glad you have come to find yourself a plan.

Send off the CCA requests asap.

I would start a new thread for each case that you might need help with.

As well as CCA requests SARS are a good idea, but you must make sure you send a good SAR request to enable you to find the info you seek, often a SAR will not throw up CCA's but at least you can show you have done your best to try and find the info you need.

It used to be said that if time had passed since the CCJ was awarded then it was not worth going for a set aside because of the time issue, now more and more posters are going for the set aside regardless of the timing.

here is a link to a thread where the setaside was granted after two years.... its worth a read....http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/139232-hfc-restons-charging-order.html

 

If you really want to get to the bottom of these CCA requests then its a good idea to look into the CPR route. You will find all the info here....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

make sure you understand this fully if you decide to go down this path at a later date.

 

Hope you are feeling a little less stressed now. Staying up till 5am will not help, (sorry I sound like your mum now,) I've done this myself, as i said it will get sorted. My life is now enjoyable and pretty stress free on the debt side of it. Thats all thanks to CAG. I have learnt so much in the past year, its amazing.

Edited June 13, 2009 by questioning

[TrappedInFrance]

I've been looking at the form that I need to fill in for the attachment of earnings order - does anyone have an idea as to how much the court will look to make me pay, lets say if my income is 2000 per month.

 

My rent + other essential bills (gas / elect / phone / council tax etc) come to about 1200... so 800 left before food - what should I be bracing myself for?

[questioning]

Is it just you and your wife or do you have children?

[TrappedInFrance]

Me + wife + 1 child (10 year old)... I also pay maintenance for another child but this is not set out by a court order (just agreed amount each month).

 

The total debt is about £10k - was hoping to offer maybe £100 per month until I can get to the bottom of the CCJ?

[questioning]

Is it just you and your wife or do you have children?

 

This gives you a good idea, it is from national debt line.

As I said before because this is enforcement the court works on a much stricter formula to work out what you have to pay. I think it coincides with the amount paid out for living exp. given in income support (if anyone knows how much that is)

Here you are....

Housekeeping. This should include food, toiletries, cleaning

materials, newspapers and so on and a small amount for

entertainment and other spending. A rough guide would

be as follows.

Weekly housekeeping budget

Single person £37 to £50

Couple £62 to £78

Each child £20 to £35

Non-dependant £25 to £35

Edited June 13, 2009 by questioning

[questioning]

Make sure you include the maintenance that you pay for your child, if its excessive in the courts eyes you will soon know about it.

Edited June 13, 2009 by questioning

[TrappedInFrance]

I've spoken to the court today - need to get the papers back to them by the 23rd, so that gives me a few days to get my head around things.

 

I'm not gonna contest the original CCJ after all - when I've taken a cold hard look at all the CCJs on the credit file, I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel & am strongly considering going bankrupt.... all the other CCJs will be hounding me soon & there is no prospect of me paying them off within the next 20 years!

 

Thanks to all for the advice... got me through a very dark weekend.

[faza]

you could try going for an iva.

[TrappedInFrance]

total debt is 100k (or therabouts).... I think an IVA would be limited to around 40k?

[faza]

i dont know about the 40.