horror 118's have bought all mobile numbers

[fiftypence]

Orange T&C's state that just by using your phone on their network you agree to their T&C's which allow them to share your information with other companies in the group and with those outside the group and their business partners. I'm sure these types of clauses are not unique to Orange

[2Grumpy]

Precisely

 

You can't negotiate with them over their T&Cs so they are not neccessarily all binding

 

Some of them are unfair & cannot be enforced

 

You can't sign away your rights under uk legislation

 

I'm sure that they don't have the right to give away your number or other personal details.

 

If they had in their T&Cs the right to remove your kidneys to sell on the black market then they wouldn't be able to enforce that either.

[fiftypence]

I'm as miffed about as anyone but I don't think they have done anything wrong unfortunately. The T&C's are in the smallprint which no-one ever reads or questions and by making one phone call you have agreed to them sharing your info

[2Grumpy]

If that condition is unfair or unlawful or removes one of your rights under legislation than the term is unfair. That makes what they have done wrong

 

However, are we certain that Orange has supplied their numbers? I have tried my Orange number and I'm not there. It could be that they have got their information from other organisations, and that doesn't neccessarily give them the right to process your data either.

[fiftypence]

dunno if Orange supplied mine but they had it on their database, so I have asked them to remove it. Couldn't give a monkeys about DCA's finding me (I wish they would I don't get any calls from them ) but I don't want sales calls for double glazing/electricity suppliers/broadband offers etc etc.

[tadg]

The 118800 mobile directory enquiry service does raise a number of privacy and regulatory issues which people should take up with the Information Commissioners Office and OFCOM.

 

Ok, the mobile directory enquiry service does NOT give out mobile numbers .. rather it contacts the 'requested party' and lets them know the 'requesting party' is looking for them. The company either sends a text to the requested party or or connects a call via call completion. But don’t worry says the company .. it respects your 'privacy' because it never gives out your number.

 

The company has provided a facility so people can opt-out and become ex-directory.

 

So what's wrong?

Well, firstly, this directory enquiry (call completion) service sits outside of the regulatory framework for directories and directory enquiry services in the UK and which falls under the remit of OFCOM. Under that Framework, OFCOM has established a national directory database managed by BT and which is called OSIS. This is the OFFICIAL database and which also contains ex-directory numbers. ALL 118 providers that offer telephone numbers are entitled to access this database/receive this information under the law/the regulatory framework. Mobile operators are obliged to pass subscriber information to OSIS BUT do so only where a customer has specifically requested that they want an entry in a directory or directory enquiry service - in other words where a customer has expressly opted-in. Both OFCOM and the EU (who were taking legal action against the UK government for failing to give mobile customers the right to an entry in directories) have agreed that entries in directories and directory enquiry services should be based on opt-in consent.

 

It is a fact that the 118800 service does not fall under any definitions of a directory enquiry service/facility of the above regulatory framework and so the company is NOT entitled to access OSIS data or receive data from OSIS or the mobile operators (despite what it says in the press!).

 

The 118800 service is a purely private system. Ask yourself why someone should need to become ex-directory in this service if they are already ex-directory in the national OSIS database? What is to stop another private company from establishing a directory or directory service which is essentialy unregulated? How many databases do you need opt-out of and become XD .. if you need to be XD then you should only need to do it once.

 

So what else is wrong. Well, firstly lets look at the 15 million names, addresses and numbers obtained from third parties (and which could the retailer you bought your phone from or some online retailer who you have supplied your details to). 2 pieces of law apply here.

(1) The Data Protection Act 1998 - the DPA. Under the Data Protection Act those collecting your data need to make you aware in a transparent and clear manner of the intention to place your details in a directory service and the purposes of that directory, of any disclosures of your data and to allow you to make an informed decision as to whether you wish to be in the directory or not .. in other words they needed your consent (given that neither 118800 or the company that collected your data has any legal obligation to process your data for purposes of directory enquiries!). (2) Regulation 18 of the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 applies - the PECRs. Reg 18 states: The personal data of an individual subscriber shall not be included in a directory unless that subscriber has, free of charge, been -

(a) informed by the collector of the personal data of the purposes of the directory in which his personal data are to be included, and (b) given the opportunity to determine whether such of his personal data as are considered relevant by the producer of the directory should be included in the directory. “ This seems quite clear that the party collecting your data should have told you about the 118800 service and given you the clear opportunity to agree - either by an opt-in box or by an opt-out box (depending on whether they published a clear and prominent notice at the time they collected your data). It seems to me that opt-in consent is required for the purposes of this directory.

 

So what else. Well, the company says you can obtain a copy of information they hold on you pursuant to your rights under Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act. 118800 charge the maximum fee permitted under the Data Protection Act for meeting these access requests. BUT why are they charging people when Reg 18(5) of the PECRs requires directory operators to provide subscribers with the means (free of charge) to verify, correct or withdraw their data at any time - I can find no mention of these rights on the 118800 website or how you can exercise them.

 

What else? Oh yes. back to the regulatory framework. ALL 118 services are regulated by PhonePayPlus which is an agency of OFCOM the government telecoms and media regulator. PhonePayPlus regulates services by a Code of Practice - the Code. the 118800 service is incompatible with the Code which (a) defines telephone directories as ones that supply phone numbers (b) requires companies providing call completion services to disclose telephone numbers to persons who demand a number and © requires that services must not or must not be likely to result in any unreasonable invasion of privacy. As opt-in consent has not been sought from any person in the 118800 directory, it is possible that individuals listed in the directory without their knowledge or agreement will consider contact via the call completion service to amount to an unreasonable invasion of their privacy (especially those who considered they are already ex-directory under the official national OSIS database).

 

So where do people go from here? If you are concerned you can ask 118800 to verify what data they have on you free of charge email 118800 (the email address is in the privacy policy at http://www.118800.co.uk), BUT you could and should raise your concerns or complain directly to the Information Commissioners Office (Information Commissioner's Office - ICO) .. you could do the same to OFCOM (http://www.ofcom.org.uk) and/or PhonePayPayPlus (http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk). Certainly anyone who called the 118800 service last Friday to find out a mobile subscriber (even themselves) and found that the service did not work, can complain to PhonePayPlus and also demand a refund of the £1 charge (minimum) for the calls.

 

And don't forget this company demanded the mobile operators give them ALL of their subscriber information and threatened legal action if they didn't get it!

Edited June 25, 2009 by tadg

[Big Boss Man]

Details of the Chief Executive and Company address can be found in this article i recently read in my local media:

 

Connectivity launches 118 800 mobile phone directory service from KCOM call centre in Carr Lane, Hull city centre

[tadg]

KCOM are just acting as a contractor (or data processor under the Data Protection Act) providing operator services on behalf of Connectivity. As for Connectivity's statement that the 118800 service "had been approved by the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)" ..... there's a bit of poetic licence going on there.

 

The ICO never 'approve' any service, that is not their role. They may make an opinion as to whether a service is likely to comply with data privacy law .. but any such opinions are based on the information supplied to them in the first instance.

 

People can find out exactly what has been said or agreed by submitting an online request for information under the Freedom of Information Act ..... see here https://forms.ico.gov.uk/enquiry.aspx

 

You can complain about the 118800 service here Complaints about data protection policy - ICO

[tadg]

KCOM are just acting as a contractor (or data processor under the Data Protection Act) providing operator services on behalf of Connectivity. As for Connectivity's statement that the 118800 service "had been approved by the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)" ..... there's a bit of poetic licence going on there.

 

The ICO never 'approve' any service, that is not their role. They may make an opinion as to whether a service is likely to comply with data privacy law .. but any such opinions are based on the information supplied to them in the first instance.

 

People can find out exactly what has been said or agreed by submitting an online request for information under the Freedom of Information Act ..... see here https://forms.ico.gov.uk/enquiry.aspx

 

You can complain about the 118800 service here Complaints about data protection policy - ICO

[Kraken1]

some good stuff there tadg. thanks.

[diddydicky]

or you can just spend 7 quid and have a call filter installed on your mobile!

[tadg]

Why should anyone have to pay or got such lenghts? If people want the regulators to look into this service they must complaint to the ICO, PhonePayPlus and OFCOM. If enough people complain then the regulators will have to act.

[Undercover-Elsa]

On a similar theme, my OH got an extremely pushy call yesterday on his mobile, asking for ME, saying they were from Vodafone and my contract was due for renewal. When he said it was his phone they asked for my home number. He refused and said if I wanted to change the contract I'd contact Vodafone myself.

Now...that phone was a prezzie from me to OH on a Vodafone long contract which still has a year to run. Not even my OH knew that the contract is actually in my name. Only me...and Vodafone.

I got him to text me the number who called him..which turned out to be a firm called Communications Direct. Loads of complaints about marketing and silent calls on Googling them.

I feel a complaint to Vodafone and the ICO coming on. The only possible way they have got this number, linked to my name, is if Vodafone sold it to them. I've now registered it with TPS.

Elsa x

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Folks!

 

Guess what also lives at Merlin House bum-cheek to bum-cheek with Connectivity Limited...

 

...a Debt Collector!

 

See:

 

Public Register

 

Now, there's a surprise.

 

Opting out, I fear, is just more Data Harvesting for the Debt Industry. That will link names to numbers, even if your number has not already been grabbed by them already. Once you opt out, they will have your name and number...and they will be passing that on, rest assured.

 

This is War people, nothing less.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited July 9, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Can't Type. Or Spell.

[miziwizzi]

 

Public Register

 

Now, there's a surprise.

 

Opting out, I fear, is just more Data Harvesting for the Debt Industry. That will link names to numbers, even if your number has not already been grabbed by them already. Once you opt out, they will have your name and number...and they will be pass that on, rest assured.

 

This is War people, nothing less.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

 

totally agree here, opting out gives them even more info.

[littlefatbudha]

Hi all , have just phoned Vodafone reguarding this issue, and their reply was,"that they will not be giving any information to 118 800 or anybody else,as this would be a breach of data protection ",Glad to hear it aswell.Steve:lol:

[The GodMother]

yep voda told me that on a brand new sim card but guess whose new number turned up on the system.

[littlefatbudha]

Sorry to hear that, surely Vodafone must be in breach of Data Protection ,if you did not give them permission to use your details for profit or anything else !

[The GodMother]

i checked the number within 10 minutes of registring the phone. The only number i called from that phone was voda to register it.

 

according to the info comms officer vodafone has not as they claim to have not given the number out and despitvoda giving them a list of phone numbers called from that number the are not in breech.

[cerberusalert]

They're still having problems with their service, it was due to be up & running 15th June then delayed until this month (5th) & now it's delayed again.

 

Service suspended whilst we make improvements

 

The 118 800 service for mobile phone connections is currently unavailable - from this website and by phone - whilst we undertake major developments to our 'Beta Service' to improve the experience for our customers. We'll be back as soon as possible with the new improved service.

 

All ex-directory requests made by people in our directory to date are being processed. There will be no need to resend these requests. And we will take further ex-directory requests when the service resumes. We will not be taking ex-directory requests by phone or text whilst the service is not operational.

 

Please do not call us on 118 800 for anything other than landline directory enquiry requests as you will be charged for the call.

 

For other enquiries email us at [email protected] or write to us at 118 800, PO Box 2747, Reading RG30 4ZQ

 

Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

[zazen.warrior]

Sounds like it's all gone a bit pear shaped for them; poor dears. And someone must have thought it was such a sound business proposal.

Edited July 12, 2009 by zazen.warrior

[angry cat]

Hello Folks!

 

Guess what also lives at Merlin House bum-cheek to bum-cheek with Connectivity Limited...

 

...a Debt Collector!

 

See:

 

Public Register

 

Now, there's a surprise.

 

Opting out, I fear, is just more Data Harvesting for the Debt Industry. That will link names to numbers, even if your number has not already been grabbed by them already. Once you opt out, they will have your name and number...and they will be passing that on, rest assured.

 

This is War people, nothing less.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Totally agree BRW!

 

No way am I opting out;

just bought a handfull of sim cards, some at boot fairs, some from retailers.

 

Note, T mobile do not ask your name and pay cash.

O2, do ask for your name.

 

This is WAR, but we all knew it was coming;

in my view it it probably the biggest invasion of privacy in our time:

An OUTRAGE.

 

AC

[cerberusalert]

When you opt out your name is not linked to the sim card. All that happens is you enter the mobile number on the website & they text you a four number code which you enter back onto the site & that's it. The only details given is the mobile number.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Sounds like it's all gone a bit pear shaped for them; poor dears. And someone must have thought it was such a good business proposal.

The trouble is, we don't really know what their true aims were/are in all of this.

 

We've spotted that there is a Debt Collector linked to the Address of Connectivity Limited, so it's quite possible all the glossy Mobile Directory front is just a token smoke screen so the Debt Industry can harvest a large sector of Data it does not yet have a full hook into...namely Mobile Phones.

 

We may be amused by their Web Server getting overloaded, but if the primary aim was gathering Data, I expect they will be over the Moon at how successful it has been. Even if they shut down in a few Months time, they will finish with a huge chunk of Data that they can then Sell. I fear that was probably the aim all along.

 

To put this into some perspective, it may be worth knowning that some of the Price Comparison Web Sites that are also being heavily advertised at the moment, have groups such as Experian lurking right behind them.

 

Insurance

Loans

Mortgages

Holidays

Debt

Debt

Debt

 

...spot the trend? Notice the similarities in style?

 

In my view, anything that has elements of the Debt Industry lurking in the background is plain bad news and should be avoided.

 

Just like those annoying Credit Expert adverts you see everywhere. The annoying blinking/flashing things are even right in your face when viewing your Watched Item List on eBay...always at the top of your screen, always in your face, always annoying for any CAGGER!

 

People click on that, and end up filling in a Form thinking how jolly fun and funky it would be to see how their Credit is doing. When in reality, they are just having their Data hoovered out of them to top up the CRA Servers with more juicy bits to cross-check and hand out to the nearest DCA, or any one of a number of annoying Companies trying to sell you stuff you really do not need...like non-mandatory Insurances/Debt, and Mortgages/Debt, and Equity Release/Debt and Loans/Debt.

 

These people are gathering Data like mad 24x7, and our tame Regulators are doing very little about it.

 

The best we can do is keep educating friends and family to be on their guard at all times, and start being more aware of the multitude of cunning methods the Debt Industry employs just to grab at our Data.

 

It is sadly ironic that despite the billions of Credit Checks that have been made, we are all now neck deep in one of the biggest banking related downturns yet seen. I would argue that having access to so much Data has achieved the square root of Foxtrot all in preventing the very problems the Debt Industry say they can avoid by having access to it!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[cerberusalert]

I would argue that having access to so much Data has achieved the square root of Foxtrot all in preventing the very problems the Debt Industry say they can avoid by having access to it!

Allthough they may say that having access to this data will prevent debt it doesn't, besides it's not in either of their interests to do so because without debt neither would be able profit as they do, particulary the DCAs. All it does is enhance their tracing capabilities. I wonder what field they'll enter next GPS where they can home in on a mobile to see where it is?