Jump to content



  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • OC 's don't do court   dx  
    • you will also need a copy of the CCJ and the particulars of claim on the claimform as... you'll need the particulars of claim as we don't know the judgement sum nor if post judgemental interest was allowed. did you defend it? did you ignore it? did you not get it?  did you know nothing about it?   its very rare on welcome debt either taken to court by welcome (doubtful in 2013) or a DCA (more likely)  i will suggest the debt was already at £18k before the CCJ so nothing bar court charges were added   please advise  i love bashing welcome and DCA but we can't help until we know our actual target and who did what and when.                
    • Janet Yellen confirmed as first female US Treasury secretary in Senate vote View the full article
    • I am sorry not to have responded in time to your thread. I have an awful lot going on.   I am hoping that you still haven't sent off your WS  as I have just seen a copy of Southend Airport  ByeLaws 2020. which will help you no end.     https://d1z15fh6odiy9s.cloudfront.net/files/board-approved-london-southend-airport-byelaws-100220-d14ca659.pdf   If you go to Section 5  the headline reads 5. Prohibited acts on parts of the Airport to which the Road Traffic Enactments do not apply:   In other words the roads on the airport are either governed by the Road Traffic Act or the airport Byelaws- neither of which are classed as relevant land. Therefore PoFA DOES NOT APPLY throughout the airport.   Take a copy for the Court and point out that the VCS WS is somewhat lacking in accuracy. It is inconceivable that VCS have not read the Byelaws since they are operating there.    So looking at their WS it reminds me that a good few years ago it was said about the WSs of  parking companies that they and their lawyers simply do not care about the truth and are content with regularly supplying false information to the courts, happy that they will not produce a witness to defend their porkie pies, and that nothing bad will therefore happen to them.   This practice should stop since were the authors to have to appear in Court and challenged, their perjury would not only be clear to see but it would put a stop to the practice. If they don't turn up in Court they get away with their lies and are able to repeat them ad nauseam. And this WS is full of lies and misdirections -not that you can say in Court they are lies but you can point out where there is contradictions shall we say and let the Judge decide.    The WS says in point 31 that they robustly deny that their sign is prohibitive.    You could point out that  District Justice Glenn  in Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd v Bull & 2 Others (B4GF26K6, 21 April 2016), at the High Wycombe Court said    “If the notice had said no more than if you park on this roadway you agree to pay a charge then it would have been implicit that PCM was saying we will allow you to park on this roadway if you pay £100 and I would agree with Mr Samuels’ first analysis that essentially the £100 was a part of the core consideration for the licence and was not a penalty for breach.   The difficulty is that this notice does not say that at all. This notice is an absolute prohibition against parking at any time, for any period, on the roadway.   It is impossible to construct out of this in any way, either actually or contingently or conditionally, any permission for anyone to park on the roadway.   All this is essentially saying is you must not trespass on the roadway. If you do we are giving ourselves, and we are dressing it up in the form of a contract, the right to charge you a sum of money which really would be damages for trespass, assuming of course that the claimant had any interest in the land in order to proceed in trespass.”   And of course VCS cannot sue for trespass as they are not the landowners.  
  • Our picks

    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
        • Haha
        • Like
    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies

Is this Halifax CCA enforceable please?


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 4107 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi guys, Just recieved a response from Halifax Credit Card after I CCA'd them and attached is what they have sent me as the agreement, which is not very clear, I cant read it apart from my personal details. They have also sent me around 17 A4 pages which seem to be making up the terms and conditions for the Credit Card, however, they quote fess and charges of £12 and I took this agreement out way before then, therefore, they could not have been the current terms and conditions at the time as charges were much higher then....

 

Also I requested the terms and conitions that were current to the time of signing the agreement however, they sent me the new t&C's.....

 

Also attached is the letter they sent me basically teling me that they wont respond to any more of my CCA requests!!

Halifax CCA Letter.pdf

Edited by Stressed150
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 168
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Under the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) they are entitled to omit your signature and Date of signature, however, all other important details – e.g. Your name, address, and the prescribed terms (amount of credit, interest, repayment dates) must be on the copy.

 

In Court they would need to produce a document with your signature on it, containing all the prescribed terms if they wished to enforce it. Section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 expressly prohibits a Court from enforcing an agreement which omits the prescribed terms. Section 127(3) applies to Regulated Credit Agreements which were arranged before April 2007.

 

In practice then, most creditors with nothing to hide, will simply find it expedient to say look there is a photocopy of the signed agreement, it’s got all the prescribed terms on it etc...so no point in contesting it.

 

I don’t see any prescribed terms on the document they’ve sent. This would be the signature document. The current terms and conditions are a separate document and not relevant for enforceability issues.

 

I suspect they are being cagey and they may not have your signed agreement. But you can’t be sure yet.

 

I would be inclined to send them a Data Subject Access Request along with the £10 fee (I’ll post up a suggestion later for you if you're not sure how to word it)

 

Also do you have a copy of the Default Notice ? Have they terminated your agreement or have they demanded payment of the whole outstanding balance ? The Default notice must be in a certain form for them to be able to demand payment of the outstanding balance - often Default Notices are invalid.

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law and litigation privilege

 

Please see the following copyright statement

Link to post
Share on other sites

err what CCA agreement... I cant read didly squat on that? Is it as bad a copy as the scan suggests?

 

No prescribed terms appear on it either as far as I can make out anyway.

 

S.

 

 

Oh and looks like its a microfiche copy so they may not have the original anyway.

Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In terms of the Ministy of Justice "warnings" that Halifax are mentioning, the Ministry of Justice is considering regulating Companies which advertise services to the public promising to "write off" credit card debts" etc. It has nothing to do with whether YOUR agreement is enforceable or not. See my comments here :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/183190-shoosmiths-cc-summons-cca-8.html#post2221436

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law and litigation privilege

 

Please see the following copyright statement

Link to post
Share on other sites
err what CCA agreement... I cant read didly squat on that? Is it as bad a copy as the scan suggests?

 

Shadow has a point. If Halifax have taken your £1 then they have arguabey failed to comply para 2(1) of SI 1983/1557 because the copy document is not easily legible throughout. To quote from Para 2(1) :-

 

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law and litigation privilege

 

Please see the following copyright statement

Link to post
Share on other sites

The upshot, is that you can fire off a letter to them about the supplied copy being illegible. As well as going down the SAR route.

 

The objective on the letter, is really for CPR pre action behaviour i.e. to show that you are trying to be reasonable in demanding verification that this is indeed a lawful agreement.

 

Again I will try and do a sample letter for you later.

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law and litigation privilege

 

Please see the following copyright statement

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much guys for your wonderful advice..... I have sent of for an SAR as I have several accounts with the halifax this being one of them in the SAR Ihave explicitly stated that I wnt the original signed agreements for all my credit agreements, also confirmed this in a telephone call....

 

The Shadow, the scan of the agreement is quite accurate as the agreement is inillegaible I cannot make out anything on the agreement other then my own personal details.....

 

I will therefore, be wrting to Halifax Credit Crad Services again and explain to them that I require the original CCA with my signature on it under CPR rules and not under Consumer Credit Legislation....or shall I just wait and see what they send me with the SAR?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will therefore, be wrting to Halifax Credit Crad Services again and explain to them that I require the original CCA with my signature on it under CPR rules and not under Consumer Credit Legislation....or shall I just wait and see what they send me with the SAR?

 

I would say DONT send it under CPR rules if your refering to CPR 31.16. The whole point of the s78 request is to put the account into dispute if they dont comply with it... if they cant show they have conformed to s78 then any court case they may bring has a complete defence. The CCA1974 states they MUST comply with s78 otherwise they cannot enforce the agreement.

 

If you write back saying they havent conformed with s78 request as the document they have sent is illegible. They need to provide a better copy otherwise s78 is still not met.

 

In my opinion anyway.

 

Possible Letter:

Dear crappy bank with the geeky bloke in the adverts

 

Thank you for your letter dated XXXXXX and the attached documents in response to my Statutory Requests for a true copy of the properly executed Regulated Consumer Credit Card Agreement in relation to my alleged Account. Unfortunately your response has not produced any evidence that the alleged Agreement is enforceable.

The alleged Agreement appear to be unenforceable for the following reasons:

 

1. The document is an Application Form and must carry the correct title if it is to be considered suitable as becoming an Agreement once properly executed. The missing Title being 'Credit Card Agreement Regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974.'

 

2. I am entitled to receive a true copy of the Agreement and such true copy must be easily legible. What you have sent is not a true copy, nor easily legible. It is hard to read due to poor quality copying of a copy.

 

 

 

This is contrary to the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced

in addition to any such Form.

(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

 

3. The Agreement must contain the prescribed terms within the four corners of the Agreement, the alleged Agreement does not have the prescribed terms within the four corners and furthermore no where on the front is there any reference to terms and conditions being on the reverse.

 

You should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit including but not limited to Trading Standards, the Office of Fair Trading, the Information Commissioners Office, The Financial Ombudsman Service and my MP .

 

 

If you have the original of my alleged Agreement available I request that I be allowed to view them at your offices so I can verify it as the alleged document that I signed.

 

I must also remind you that any court action you may choose to take would require you to produce the original of the alleged Agreement.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 7 days.

 

Until such time as you comply with my Statutory Requests, this alleged Accounts remains in dispute.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

S.

Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Letter to be sent off tmrw, I now rmbr I neva did sign an agreement for the Crdit card, as I initially went into a branch with a query the lady then told me I was 'entitled' to recieve a Credit Card.... me being young and stupid accepted.....! However, how would I prove thgis as the application/agreement they hve snt me seems to have an extremely faint squiggle on it which could possibly be my sig....its that faint I cant make it out....however, where would they have got that from?? And if this agreement did have my signature on it why remove it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Stressed150

 

I was in the same position as you. I went into Halifax on my lunch hour and was told that I was that I was entitled to a credit card.

 

I have got the same 'cannot read application' as you.

 

The application that they have sent you does not have the prescibed terms on it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Stressed150

 

I was in the same position as you. I went into Halifax on my lunch hour and was told that I was that I was entitled to a credit card.

 

I have got the same 'cannot read application' as you.

 

The application that they have sent you does not have the prescibed terms on it.

 

 

And did you ever recieve anything in the post to sign a few days later? Im 99.5% sure that I only received the credit card and not an agreemnt to sign...

 

With the application they have sent me as my agreement I recieved a number of A4 pages that are the current terms and conditions... I hav'nt really put them up here as there are about 16 pages worth!! Im assuming these would actually be irrelevant as they are supposed to send me the T&C that were relevant at the time of taking out the agreement...?

Link to post
Share on other sites

One more point on this, although there are mot certainly no prescribed terms on the application form itself there after careful analyzing and squinting I have been able to make out a note on the actual page that states 'attached to this application form you will find important information about your account'.

 

Could this amount to them giving indication that theprescribed terms are on the back etc??

 

Im not entirely familaiar with the prescribed terms for Credit cards ad this is the first CCA I am requesting for one, so not sure enitrley what Im looking for.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
One more point on this, although there are mot certainly no prescribed terms on the application form itself there after careful analyzing and squinting I have been able to make out a note on the actual page that states 'attached to this application form you will find important information about your account'.

 

Could this amount to them giving indication that theprescribed terms are on the back etc??

 

Im not entirely familaiar with the prescribed terms for Credit cards ad this is the first CCA I am requesting for one, so not sure enitrley what Im looking for.....

 

make sure you keep that letter-- "attached to" aint acceptable- the prescribed terms must be within the SAME document and not contained in another document

Link to post
Share on other sites

Microfiche copies "usually" have deep dark borders around them, also if they forget to take the index ref of the copy you'll see on one of the edges a long number.

 

I think the easy test is to say if you had photocopied something and it was a bad copy would you not redo the photocopy. Unfortunately for them you cant rescan the microfiche copy as they've probably destroyed the original so all they can do is attempt to improve the quality of the copy they send you..

 

S.

Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote=I think the easy test is to say if you had photocopied something and it was a bad copy would you not redo the photocopy. Unfortunately for them you cant rescan the microfiche copy as they've probably destroyed the original so all they can do is attempt to improve the quality of the copy they send you..

 

S.

 

VERY handy to know, thanks Shadow..:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Microfiche copies "usually" have deep dark borders around them, also if they forget to take the index ref of the copy you'll see on one of the edges a long number.

 

I think the easy test is to say if you had photocopied something and it was a bad copy would you not redo the photocopy. Unfortunately for them you cant rescan the microfiche copy as they've probably destroyed the original so all they can do is attempt to improve the quality of the copy they send you..

 

S.

 

or you could wait and see if it turns into a frog!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...