AOL are sneaky so beware when cancelling

[cyclingoscar]

This will hopefully be for your information and delectation. Sorry it’s a bit long

 

I changed ISP last year from AOL to Phone Coop. As I knew this was in the offing, a few months earlier I changed the bill payment type from a monthly charge against my DEBT Card to a monthly Direct Debit against my current account. The reason behind this was I could cancel the payment and not have months of trouble with AOL charging me for a service I no longer had. The contract had long since passed into a rolling month on month as the initial 12months had had long expired.

 

At the end of October 2008 I got the standard “Your AOL broadband service has now been migrated” email:

 

Dear AOL Member,

Following your request to migrate your broadband service to another ISP, we can confirm that this process has now been completed.

 

We'll therefore be closing your AOL Broadband account very shortly. If you are still within your 0 month minimum contractual period, any outstanding amounts due under your AOL Broadband Agreement will be debited from your payment method on or shortly after your next billing date, unless otherwise agreed. We want to thank you for being an AOL Broadband member.

 

We're sorry that you've decided to leave… and other platitudes….

In November I received an email from AOL Collections:

 

Dear Member,

We are writing to notify you that because your Direct Debit mandate is not valid, we have not received this month's payment for services provided to you. Etc....

So a stiff phone call to AOL on 01179191100, (not using their 0870/0845 numbers). Initially the guy wanted me to make a payment! I had to ask several times what for, as AOL was not providing me with the service any more. Eventually the penny dropped and after talking to his team-leader the account was set to zero. I thought that was the end of it.

 

Not so. Seven months later I get a letter from Roxburghe Debt Collectors.

 

“Your debt has been passed to Roxburghe by AOL Broadband as they have been unable to obtain payment from you. All contact must now be made through these offices. You are now required to pay this debt in full IMMEDIATELY.

 

As a debt recovery specialist we are looking to work with you to resolve this matter and would urge you to contact us so this can be achieved. …And so on…

 

Jonathan Stock”

So I have sent back an “I do not acknowledge this debt” email suggesting “Roxburghe get in touch with AOL and inform them they have made a mistake. One thing I do think is strange is you state AOL have tried to obtain payment! This is not true. I have not had any communication from AOL recently.”

 

By the way I have had two email read receipts so I know they've had my email. I will update when I get any feed back if any.

[locutus]

You seem to have things in hand, but if they continue here are a couple of useful templates I'm sure you can use to copy and paste (Save you're typing LOL)

 

 

Here is the template that you could use when dealing with a DCA on a none-existant debt

Agreement is in dispute (just delete the CCA stuff as it's not aplicable)

 

Or this one If you knownothing of the debt

Edited June 12, 2009 by locutus

[Conniff]

I did some correspondence for a friend who had exactly the same thing, (seems to be a habit of AOL).

 

I sent a letter asking that they send proof of the amount owing, they said AOL confirms the amount owing. So I replied, 'Ok, send me the proof so I can read it as this account was closed as per AOL terms and conditions'.

 

They then asked for proof and copies of the paperwork to show it had been closed. I replied, (exact words) 'Hello, someone has their knicker in a twist, you are the one demanding money, you are the one to show that money is owed. Now either, put up or shut up. No further correspondence will be entered into until you show irrefutable proof that it is owed'.

 

He has heard nothing since.

 

When you know you are in the right, you can say what you like and in the language you want. Try it, call their bluff.

[cyclingoscar]

Thanks for both posts, Locutus and Conniff.

 

Will wait and see what the 1st approach does, then blast them…..

 

Had in the post yesterday some junk mail from, guess who….

 

“Did you know AOL Broadband is now part of TalkTalk Group?”

“Introducing TalkTalk’s best-ever phone & broadband package….”

 

Seems odd that they’d want me back as a customer if I can’t even pay the existing bills (allegedly)

[Conniff]

And that, I beleive, is why all these demands are being sent out. Talktalk have taken over, seen all the past accounts and said to someone 'send a demand to all these and see how many have forgotten they cancelled and pay up, lets see what sort of bonus money we can make'.

It's a rip-off.

[locutus]

Probably more they just moved the accounts from 1 billing system to another and the new one sends bills out to anything that shows overdrawn... I'd not expect much human intervention on this. It's probably set up that if a bill is wrong its in the companies favour LOL

[buzby]

For clarification UK AOL was purchased by Carphone Warehouse, and more recently, have also purchased Tiscali. So wait for more pandemonium and disquiet to come. Talk Talk...? No Noooooo....

[cyclingoscar]

Thanks for the replies. Been quiet from my end as been a few days.

 

Last week got email response from Roxburghe.

Good Afternoon,

 

Please be advised that I have noted your account with the details that you have provided below and I can confirm that I have raised a direct query with our clients. As soon as we hear back from our clients you will be informed accordingly.

 

So might just go quiet for a while.......

[merryprankstar]

Only just came across this forum, & thought I'd share my AOL experience with you. Perhaps someone advise me what to do next...?

 

I'd been with AOL for about 3 years when, last August, I got a new mobile from O2 and offered a better broadband deal. So I called AOL (I had been abroad for a year, had kept my AOL account active for the tenants who rented my flat, & couldn't remember my AOL password & therefore couldn't do it online) on 18 Aug 08 to cancel my account, and was told I needed to do this in writing. So I got all the details I needed to include, wrote the letter and sent it off. My O2 account started the next day, and as far as I was concerned, that was the end of my AOL account. Then in November, I changed bank accounts and noticed I was still paying for AOL. So naturally I cancelled the direct debit, thinking oh well that's my fault for not telling the bank sooner (I wish I had just called them now to try get the money back, then this whole saga would not be happening!). I didn't hear anything from AOL, so thought that was that. Then on 19 March I received a FINAL demand (funny, I hadn't received a first demand..?!) saying that they had been trying to get payment unsuccessfully & that I am now due them £108, and that if I didn't pay it, they would take me to court. I called them immediately & explained the situation, only to be told by a very unpleasant AOL telephone advisor that there was no record of a phone call to AOL in August, nor had they received my cancellation letter. I told them that, as I had done everything they had asked me to do to cancel the account, that I had witnesses to teh phonecall as I called from work & evidence of when the letter was sent, there was no way I was paying for a service I hadn't used & that I didn't expect to receive any more threatening letters from them. Roughly a month later, I received the same letter from Roxburghe, signed by Jonathon Stock, an extremely annoying letter to be honest, stating that I had not responded to AOL's attempts to get payment & threatening me with court action. I called them & explained the situation, but they weren't interested & continued to send me threatening letters, to which I simply replied "I do not acknowledge this debt, I have proof of the letter I sent and the day it was sent, please do not contact me again". These letters were also sent to AOL. The last letter I sent to Roxburghe was my 6th reply(!) and I told them that if they continued to harrass me, I would be looking to take legal advice against them and AOL for causing stress & upset. No letter I ever sent was met with any response other than a new, threatening letter. The next thing was, I received a letter from a Mr Sobell at Graham White Solicitors, again saying the same thing. Thoroughly fed up by this time, I responded with a long ranting letter (much like this post!!) detailing everything I had done to cancel the account. Again, this was met with no response, so I called the solicitors, and they told me the debt had been wiped. Finally I thought this was the end...but last week I received another letter from a new debt collection company, again threatening me with legal action. I am at the end of my tether, its now almost a year since I called to cancel the account, & this just doesn't seem to be going away. Not to mention the time and cost involved in replying to these people, who never acknowledge your letters despite being given contact telephone & email details. Obviously, the last thing I want is to be taken to court over this, however I do believe I am fully within the law to refuse to pay for this. Does anyone have any advice for me??

[Conniff]

Would you like to edit that and make it readable with some paragraphs please?

[regan11]

Im having much the same problem as merryprankster. Except I have never had an AOL account.Phoned Graham Whites and told them the call was being recorded. A man called Mr Stevens(yeah right!) told me I was in the wrong department and he would transfer me. He hung up. I think I may have a bit of fun with these.

[Joanne10]

I have just received a letter from SRJ Debt Recoveries about unpaid AOL charges that total £160 with interest. I cancelled my AOL service last September and wasn't advised that I should put the request in writing when I spoke with the call centre in India. I cancelled my direct debit with my bank but have no correspondence to prove that I spoke with AOL. I haven't lived at the address in question for 3 years but was told when I originally called to cancel in 2006 that if I cancelled the service I would no longer be able to access my aol email account so kept on paying until I sorted out another email address (I realise I was very slow on that one). I told the debt recovery company that I refuse to pay and they said they will now go back to AOL and it is likely that they will take me to court. I suspect that I'm unlikely to win this as I have no proof but does anyone have any sugggestions or similar stories?

 

J

[buzby]

AOL UK is Carphone Warehouse. It is highly unlikely that you will be taken to court. The debt will be sold on to a succession on firms who will hope to exasperate you enough to make you pay up to stop them contacing you. The only potential problem is if your original agreement stipulated that they would send your payment history to a CRA. This would mean they can 'blight' you credit file

 

It might be worthwhile to request this from Experian and Equifax just to make sure.

[Joanne10]

Thank you - I feel slightly relieved! I have just called SRJ back to question again the breakdown of charges as they haven't yet provided one. They say that the charges are for a service starting 2nd Aug 2008 which I said suggested fraudulent activity as I moved 3 yrs ago (and was in any case still paying for the service until one month after that date). The SRJ employee said that it might pertain to a period after that so I suggested that it would be very strange for a company to continue to provide a service when they are pursuing debt to the individual so she backed off immediately and said she couldn't actually advise me what the charges were for. I've just emailed their correspondence dept saying I know nothing of this debt and can they send me a breakdown of the charges, period to which it pertains and the service provided. Thanks again for your help.

J

[Plama]

Hi everyone, I'm looking some sage advice (and I apologise for the length of my message to come, but just wanted to give you as complete a picture as I could).

 

I received an SRJ trace confirmation letter on 10th of Sept, which I ignored.

 

On 29th of Sept I received another letter, titled Notice of Issue of Litigation Proceedings. The content is as follows:

 

Balance: £125.31

Client: AOL Broadband

 

You have failed to arrange and/or maintain a payment plan on this debt and it is now our client's intention to issue litigation proceeding to recover the overdue sums through your local court.

 

If we take this step, solicitor's costs, court fees and interest will be added to your account.

 

Once a claim is issued and a court judgement obtained, failure to pay could result in one of the following enforcement actions:

- execution of warrant

- attachment of earnings

- charging order

- bankruptcy

 

Even at this late stage, we are able to help you arrange an affordable payment plan to fit in with your expenditure budget, but you must contact us immediately.

 

I did have AOL Broadband from 2005-2007. Once I moved flats, I changed to BT. I didn't get round to cancelling the AOL contract immediately (v. silly of me!) but eventually I sent them an email, cancelling, though I have to admit I'm hazy on the details.

 

After receiving this SRJ letter I called up AOL and found out that I did have an outstanding amount of £105.31, which was 'written off' by them. The person said that since I had previously tried to cancel my account, and since I hadn't been using AOL internet, they would send off a request to have this amount written off and my account would be cleared - they then confirmed the above to me in an email. I asked them to also speak to their accounts department to inform SRJ that there was no longer any debt outstanding.

 

On 7th of October I unfortunately received a new letter from SRJ.

 

Referral for litigation

 

Our client, AOL Broadband, has made every effort to try and help you to resolve the outstanding debt, however they have now passed the account to us for recovery. We now have only 7 days to agree an affordable payment plan on your account.

 

If by then we have not heard from you, your account will be referred for consideration for a County Court claim to be issued at:

 

my address

 

To avoid this action you must contact us within in the next 7 days.

What would you suggest I do about this? I guess, even though I didn't actually use my AOL account after moving flats and I cancelled (!), this is something I have to pay because I don't really have any documentation to prove it. I'd be happy to pay this, as long as it's to AOL and not to these bullies. Now that AOL has said that they're happy writing this off, it would seem that I don't have to pay this amount at all. What I am worried about is that SRJ actually bought this debt off AOL, so it's no longer AOL that I owe money too.

 

I would really appreciate some advice / step by step explanation of how to deal with this. Many thanks!!

 

[locutus]

...Once a claim is issued and a court judgement obtained...

They make it sound like the judgment (notice I spelled that right ) is a formality... it's not.

 

...If we take this step, solicitor's costs, court fees and interest will be added to your account...

Court costs are very limited, and at the court's discretion. Providing you defend this and go to the court, which is reasonable considering AOL say they canceled this debt as you didn't use the service (which I must say was very decent of them!) I doubt that they'd get these extras added to the cost (except the court fee's) even if they did win the court claim (which I doubt!).

 

I think this is just a standard Threat-O-Gram aimed at getting you so worried that you pay up. Keep all correspondence in writing, tell them that you don't owe the debt and you will defend it in court. They'll crawl back under the rock from whence they came

[cyclingoscar]

I would agree with Locutus. I know my case is a little different, but I have not heard anything in 4 months having gone straight back to DCA saying I don't owe the debt.

[2ltr16valve]

Was AOL not on Watchdog a little while ago for this exact same thing ?

[buzby]

However, a debt is a debt - and if not paid then it is only fair to expect some pursuit and persuasion to pay. Just because the debt is 'written off' does not mean that collection processes are inlikely - in fact - it is a common msconception. 'Written Off' does not men a 'free pass' from the debt - it still exists, is not disputed and remains to be paid for up to 6 years. If the firm that is owed the money chooses to write it off, then that is their decision, but they can do this AND sell on the debt to a third party, who can decide whether to take you to court (unlikely) or simply wear down your resistance to make you pay up.

[cyclingoscar]

Very true Busby. But for Plama is there an actual debt or have they got a figure out of thin air, loosly based on what could have been billed if the account had continued - and it is this balance that is written off? As AOL only seem too good at is creative accounting for accounts that are closed.

 

;-)

[buzby]

Absolutely, and if there is good reason to challenge then this should be done and kept up until they put up or shut up!

Edited October 11, 2009 by buzby

[cyclingoscar]

Here, here

[Plama]

Thanks for replying, everyone! Much appreciated!

 

I actually also agree with you, Buzby. It does not sit well with me that I am somehow not paying a debt of mine. However, I would like to be sure that it is money I owe, rather than something conjured up out of thin air.

 

So what you guys think should be my next steps? At the moment I am sort of thinking:

 

1 - call up AOL again and try and figure out if they've sold on this debt to SRJ

 

2 - write a letter to SRJ informing them that AOL says I no longer have any debt outstanding, ask them to check with AOL themselves, and ask for proof that I owe money

 

3 - wait for reply

 

Also, what is the likelyhood of them actually starting some kind of legal proceedings, if I don't respond to them in the next 7 days?

 

Many thanks to all,

Plama

[buzby]

I'd take the pragmatic approach.

 

Write to AOL and explain you understand THEY say there is an outstanding debt that you are unaware of. Could they supply details of this so allow you to investigate further. If you find that there was ineed an oversight on your part, you will of course arrange immediate payment, HOWEVER you require an assurance that your credit file has not been blighted, as it would be unreasonable for you to make restitution whilst they still intend to tell tales (whether accurate or not).

 

As far as the monkey is concerned, these firms are parasites - as you do not acknowledge the debt, you require them to provide proof of the debt and details of the elements that went into its calculation, to support their claimed claim on you. This probably won;t be forthcoming.

 

I would add the prospect of there being any enforcement action by them in the corts is slim - especially for amount less than £300. The possibility of a court win is not assured, and they lose more money if they are not successful, so they try to wear you down by chipping away at you to get you to pay up an settle. Once you have disputed their claim, further action should be suspended, and if it isn;t and it goes to court, plces you in an even stronger position!

[Plama]

I ended up just speaking to AOL (I'm afraid I'm a bit impatient like that, but I did get them to send me an email confirming our conversation). The customer representative was very helpful and the gist of the conversation was: AOL will review my account by next Monday and will check whether there should be any money outstanding. They told me I should definitely not deal with SRJ, but only communicate directly with AOL.

I will definitely clarify the point about my credit file next time I speak to them!

 

 

I also plan to send the following letter to SRJ to let them know what's up - please let me know if you think it should say something different. Thank you everyone.

 

 

RE: your letters dated 07/10/2009, 29/09/2009, 10/09/2009

 

I would like to inform you that I am in direct discussions with your client, AOL Broadband, and will pay whatever amount I may or may not owe (and this is still to be clarified) directly to them.

 

Please feel free to ascertain of this directly with your client. Meanwhile, I would request that you do not send me any further letters demanding payment and threatening with legal proceedings as I will not be dealing with you any further, as advised by AOL.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Plama