singular v BOS

[singular08]

Hi guys,

 

looking for some help with this one if you could.

 

I wrote off to BOS recently asking them for a copy of my CCA.

 

I've received back a letter today containing a 1 page Charity Card Application. The application does have my signature and date, along with that of the branch staff member which is also dated.

 

The letter I've received says the following

 

 

Dear singular08,

 

I write in response to your letter dated 23rd May 2009.

 

According to your records we supplied a signed statement of account, copies of the Terms and Conditions in place at the time the account was opened and those currently in place. By providing you with these copies, we satisfied our obligation under Section 78.

 

Although there is no requirement under Section 78 to provide you with a copy of the original signed agreement, I now enclose a copy of this for your records. I can confirm the reverse of the agreement contained the prescribed terms required under the Consumer Credit Act and this can be proved by the documents we sent to you previously. We will not be providing any other documentation, as we have fulfilled our obligation under Section 78.

 

The regulations define what is require of a "copy". Whilst regulation 3 provides "every copy" of an executed agreement... shall be a true copy". Regulation 3(2)(b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of signature.

 

I must remind you that failure to make payments under this agreement will result in collection activities and any default may also be reported to credit reference agencies.

 

I am also declining your request to remove any detrimental information held on your credit file in relation to this credit card account. In signing the credit card agreement, you did give your agreement and consent to the processing of your information. It is clear that by signing the agreement, the customer agrees to their date being used as set out. This is also in compliance with the Data Protection Act. Unfortunately, as a credit file is a true reflection of the conduct of an account, I am unable to amend the information.

 

We hope this clarifies our position on the matter

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Anne Gartshore

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I've read through some other posts here and I was under the impression that:

 

i, An application form is not proof of a signed CCA

ii, the prescribed terms have to be on the front of any CCA

 

 

i might be wrong or one or both of those points and now i'm a bit confused as to what my next step is.

 

any help or advice would be very much appreciated, feeling a little deflated now!

Edited June 11, 2009 by singular08

[singular08]

Hi again gang,

 

I've just come across this letter on the site and I think it looks like the kinda thing I need minus one or two items that I can omit (about blowing it up on the PC etc)

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

xx/xx/2009

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Thank you for your letter-dated xx/xx/2009 the contents of which are noted.

 

I note that you have included a copy of the document, which you aver to be the copy of the credit agreement between us

 

Now I wish to draw your attention to a series of concerns that I have with that document and why I feel that you have not discharged your duties under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

The document received is headed “Application form” within this first there are no prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 SI 1983/1553.

 

To avoid any argument, the prescribed terms for this style of agreement (running account credit) are as follows

 

1. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit,

 

2. A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement

 

3. A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Now im sure you are aware as per Wilson & FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 among others that if the prescribed terms are not in the agreement then the agreement is rendered unenforceable

 

 

To be honest I cannot tell as its not legible, infact even when blown up on the pc it is not legible and as a consequence I believe that the document fails to comply with Regulation 2 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

For your information, I reproduce regulation 2(1) for your reference

 

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1)The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

Clearly as the document you have supplied is not easily legible you cannot say that you have discharged your obligations under section 78(1) as the document does not comply with the copy document regs referred to above

Now to quote your own words from paragraph 3 of your letter “this means in effect as long as the terms are clearly shown, the CCA requirements are satisfied” well im sorry but they are not as the second part of this document that you supplied in reply to my CCA request is not clearly legible

 

Now to resolve this matter you can either supply me a copy of my agreement, which is in a legible form where all the terms are clearly stated and the prescribed terms are embodied within the agreement

 

Or alternatively, we can lay the agreement which you have produced in reply to my statutory request pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 before the county court and I will request pursuant to section 142(1) of the CCA that the court make an order on the enforceability of that document.

 

However I am sure that the bank would not be keen on this happening as should the court rule that the agreement is not enforceable and you cannot provide a better copy than what you already have then the court would have no other option but to rule the agreement unenforceable

 

I think I have set out my position clearly and have even reproduced excerpts of the legislation on which I base my case, therefore I respectfully request that you reply to this letter within 14 days setting out if you can supply a more legible copy of the agreement or what action you propose to resolve this dispute if you cannot although the only real obvious option if you cannot provide a better copy would be for the bank to zero the balance on this debt as it cannot be enforced without a truly legible signed credit agreement containing the required prescribed terms

 

 

I await your reply

 

 

 

Any thoughts as to if I should send this letter or can anyone suggest a better one for my needs?

 

Thanks again!

[singular08]

Hi folks, sorry to push this, I know it was only posted yesterday but I am really anxious to know where to go with this.

 

Now, I've read through some other posts here and I was under the impression that:

 

i, An application form is not proof of a signed CCA

ii, the prescribed terms have to be on the front of any CCA

 

 

i might be wrong or one or both of those points and now i'm a bit confused as to what my next step is.

 

Is what I think correct, or is it enforceable with the Prescribed Terms on the reverse of the Application Form?

 

What I don't understand is that if they are able to send me a copy of the front of my Application Form, why didn't they just copy the back and send that as well? That would pretty much put this whole thing to bed for them if they had done that.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read through this, any help or guidance is, as always, much appreciated.

[singular08]

Anyone?

[singular08]

bump

[singular08]

Hi guys,

 

Can anyone help on this? I really need to get a letter off to them soon as I've waited to 2 weeks to see if there was any help available :/

[craigers]

Posting the CCA on here might elicit a response.

[singular08]

Thanks for the response craigers.

 

I've managed to get my hands on a scanner at long last and have provided a link to the letter and Agreement that was sent back.

 

There's also a link for the default notice letter I have received with the expected payment date of July 6th.

 

Any advice from anyone is as always very much appreciated.

 

Letter with agreement on Flickr - Photo Sharing! - Letter with Agreement

 

Agreement on Flickr - Photo Sharing! - Agreement

 

- Default Page 1

 

- Default Page 2

Edited July 3, 2009 by singular08

[middenmess]

From reading other posts on here the default notice appears to be suspect as it is dated 22nd June and requires payment of arrears before July 6th.

 

Posted presumably 1st class on 22/6/09 deemed received on 24/6/09 12 days to recify would be 6/7/09

 

If posted 2nd class ....!

 

But others might see it differently

[singular08]

Thanks for the reply middenmess

 

I'm really not too sure if I should continue to pursue this with BOS now or not, I only have until Monday to decide if they are going to get paid so too late now to contact them by letter to try and hold off this course of action.

 

I'm not sure if it would even be within my interests to pay them to at least stop the default for the mean time and continue with my action all the same?

 

I might try a DSAR and see if that produces the documents they claim to have but are so unwilling to part with?

 

Any comments appreciated as always.

[singular08]

Good day, caggers.

 

I've had 2 letters on my doormat today when i got home, 1 from BOS and the other from the mighty Albion.

 

I've attached the links to the 2 letters below.

 

Is there any specific letter I should send to Albion or has anyone had any dealings with them who may be able to point me in the right direction? Any help is, as always, very much appreciated.

 

Everything seems pretty standard up until this point, now I'm not really sure what my next step is now the debt collectors have it?

 

Thanks again,

 

BOS - 3rd Party Contact Letter on Flickr - Photo Sharing! - BOS 3rd Party Contact Letter

 

BOS - albion debt collector letter on Flickr - Photo Sharing! - Albion Debt Collector (1st Letter)

[singular08]

bump, thanks