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    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
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Hamlins charges


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Hi,

could someone give me some advice please.

we have had arrears with our abbey mortgage, which have been a nightmare. They sent our account to litigation (Hamlins) because because they wanted payment of arrears in full.

We agreed £300 on top of our interest only mortgage but felt pressured.

We made payments for 2 months then run in to difficulty(robbed peter to pay paul) now they have sent papers saying their asking the court on the 6th July for repossession because we have missed the last two months.

The arrears are £987, my wifes parents have offered to settle the arrears, which has been a great weight off our minds.

I want to settle these arrears but not any charges off Hamlins, can we do this.

can they still ask for possession to reclaim their charges, or would they not be linked to our property.

any advice greatful

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Hi, they can't take you to court for charges as you can't be in arrears with them, they should be added to the outstanding mortgage amount. If you pay the arrears in full then there will be no court hearing - if there are no arrears they cannot continue with the claim for possession.

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Hi, they can't take you to court for charges as you can't be in arrears with them, they should be added to the outstanding mortgage amount. If you pay the arrears in full then there will be no court hearing - if there are no arrears they cannot continue with the claim for possession.

 

Thank you Ell-enn for the advice, i shall pay the arrears.

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Just to clarify, there is little you can do about Hamlin's charges as there will be an indemnity within the mortgage contract allowing them to debit your mortgage account with their costs. There is case law backing up this.

 

Sorry!!

 

Mark

Hi mark,

can you advise?

Are people taking mortgage lenders on claiming unfair charges.

I think i have read about this & its a long old slog, but before it comes to court the lender settles.

Is this possible or will it be made possible when the bank's lose on appeal at the house of lords on unfair charges.

When i spoke to hamlins they came across as nothing more than in house DCA for abbey, i know they will have a department of solicitors, but i believe no solicitor has dealt with my account to date, & £265 litigation charge is unfair. plus more charges for them asking the court to here why they want to repossess our property.

We have recieved no correspondents off the court, just hamlins paperwork.

Any advice would be greatful

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Hi Ell-enn,

Could you advise on the above points,

Is there nothing i can do about the charges like Mark say's.

if i refuse to pay them would they take me to court for the charges seperately.

Sick of being kicked when down, do i have any chance of beating these charges.

any help would be greatful

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I think the key difference here is between charges and costs. What Hamlins have charged Abbey is clearly going to be applied to your account and there will be a generaly indemnity within your mortgage conditions that this can happen. There is nothing the Court can do about this, and I have been in many a hearing where the Judge confirms this to be the case. The case I was trying to remember was Gomba Holdings v Minories Finance. However, in MY view costs are different from charges.

 

As an example....say Abbey send your case to Hamlins, who do some work preparing for court at a charge out rate of £120 per hour. Each hour is split into units of six minutes. So in total someone spends an hour and a half of your case, and they issue proceedings. They are entitled to bill for their time and the costs of issuing the proceedings (in this case it would be £180 plus the issue fee (£150), plus no doubt the dreaded VAT.

 

Now, I think the bits that could be challenged is if, say, the Abbey have charged you £300 for referring it to their solicitors. I would suggest that that may well be an unfair charge and would be challengable. The problem is that if its in the contract you signed, then it would be up to you to prove that it is an unfair contract term, and that may or may not be made easier following the result of the bank charges claim.

 

I'm not trying to pour water on your claim, believe me I enjoy taking on lenders and beating them down. In fact I have several going on for friends at the moment against Welcome Finance, Yes Car Credit, Capquest etc etc. Just don't want you to think this will be particularly easy.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Mark

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Hi there, you can't be taken to court for charges! However, as Mark says if it is in your mortgage contract that they can make these charges then the only thing you can do is claim them back as unfair same as bank charges. While they have the right to make these charges - they should only represent the actual cost to them, not their inflated cost.

 

Re the legal costs - you have the right to ask for a statement of these costs showing a breakdown of how it is calculated.

 

Wait until you have paid the arrears then check they have cancelled the court hearing, we can then get to work on the other issues.

 

Ell

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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