Tomlin Order

[Skinnymum]

Hi

First time on here. Welcome Finance and myself were due to battle it out in Court in May of this year. However, their Solicitors and I reached an accord, which resulted in a Tomlin Order. I was happy with this as instead of paying WF the £3,000 which they reckoned I owed them, I only agreed to pay them £613....... Anyway.... on a separate matter with WF - I got a claim company involved with regards to the miss-selling of my PPI. A couple of weeks ago, I received a copy letter from WF who had agreed to refund my PPI - yippee (or so I thought)......

WF paid my refunded PPI back to my account, which is still showing the original debt (now minus the £1,780 refunded PPI). so balance still remains at £1,211...... now my question is : seeing as the County Court Tomlin Order specifically states that the sum due is in full and final settlement of the case - can I ask WF to take out monies from the refunded PPI - pay off the monies owed on the Tomlin Order and then reimburse me with the oustanding refund?

[djc]

hya skinnymum

 

welcome to this great site of mind blowing information.

 

on a more serious note have you spoken to the claims company concerning the withholding of your compensation.

my thoughts are that they are not entitled to hold on to a greater sum than your full and final settlement figure therefore your claims management company should be on thier case.

 

give them a ring and discuss this development with them.

 

djc

[postggj]

skinnymum

 

can you contact the claims company and on the qt find out why welcome agreed to refund the ppi and let me know

 

it will help a great meny people

[Skinnymum]

hya skinnymum

 

welcome to this great site of mind blowing information.

 

on a more serious note have you spoken to the claims company concerning the withholding of your compensation.

my thoughts are that they are not entitled to hold on to a greater sum than your full and final settlement figure therefore your claims management company should be on thier case.

 

give them a ring and discuss this development with them.

 

djc

 

lolol to site!!!....

nd thank you for the site. Came across it by chance tbh - I was quite prepared to go to Court to fight for my Case, but alas - out of Court settlement!!.. anyway...............

 

no - the claims company, so as far as they are concerned have "done their job" and quite rightly they have and in reality WF have not withheld my compensation. Again, WF are being extremely cunning? The claims management company would, in any other circumstance, be on their case no doubt. However, what WF are saying is that until my Tomlin Order is paid off ( in 9 months time on my agreement), then they refuse to change the "outstanding balance" owed on all of their screens. i think legally WF are entitled to continue to show an "outstanding balance of *******" until they have received their payments in full. My question is "why can't they take the monies out of my PPI refund being £1,780 and pay off the outstanding balance owed via the Tomlin Order, which equate to £555.00"?

[Skinnymum]

skinnymum

 

can you contact the claims company and on the qt find out why welcome agreed to refund the ppi and let me know

 

it will help a great meny people

 

from what I can gather, I think the devious thing in all of this is that WF are actually legally doing what is bound by them via the FOS recent regulations (i.e. doing their level headed best to "reduce customers debts!" (refer to previous Email). The claims company are a company, who, I believe, have rather rigorous" rules which they know achieve what they want for their clients. once I've sorted it all out, i will keep you informed.

[postggj]

a tomlin order is a legal contractual agreement

 

if you want to vary it i believe you have to do it through there sols and both parties need to sign

 

ime not to up on tomlin orders but the general advice is avoid but yours is allready in place.

 

like i said

 

not up on tomlins so wait for more advice as its just my opinion

[Skinnymum]

a tomlin order is a legal contractual agreement

 

if you want to vary it i believe you have to do it through there sols and both parties need to sign

 

ime not to up on tomlin orders but the general advice is avoid but yours is allready in place.

 

like i said

 

not up on tomlins so wait for more advice as its just my opinion

 

Thanks

 

I did Email their Solicitors yesterday and request that they contact their clients to ask if they would refund the PPI to clear the Tomlin Order. They have said I can expect a reply in 7 days!.. Hmm.... the thing is it will be interesting to see what WF's reply will be and the reasons why. Hopefully they will see common sense and agree, but if they don't then I will seek legal advice. After all, they are in effect, keeping my money. It's all a bit concerning really, especially after I genuinely thought I had gotten rid of WF once and for all.

[Bookworm]

Well, strictly speaking, you haven't paid the PPI, have you? So if they adjust their figures to remove the PPI from your loan, you'd still have a negative balance of monies due, so yes, you still owe them the £613.

 

So this is one case where you wasted a lot of time and energy to help no-one but another CMC line their pockets.

[Skinnymum]

Well, strictly speaking, you haven't paid the PPI, have you? So if they adjust their figures to remove the PPI from your loan, you'd still have a negative balance of monies due, so yes, you still owe them the £613.

 

So this is one case where you wasted a lot of time and energy to help no-one but another CMC line their pockets.

 

Hi

The PPI relates to the monies which I already paid them with the loan, which they told me I had to take out otherwise I wouldn't have been given the loan, but you are correct in that if they adjust their figures to remove the PPI, there would still be a negative balance. However, the tomlin order, supercedes all other balances/figures on the account. I don't think I've wasted time and energy tbh - their Solicitors did all the work for me and as the saying goes "it's not over till the fat lady sings"!!....:-|

[Bookworm]

Yes, and the Tomlin order says you have to pay £613 to clear the balance. Whether their internal balance says a higher or lower amount is irrelevant. You are still paying them £613 on a higher debt to have it satisfied.

 

It's not your money as you didn't pay it in the first place, it's an imaginary amount they placed and now have removed because it shouldn't have been placed in the first place, just an adjustment in the books.

 

If you had paid the loan + PPI in full and then gone after them, that would have been different and you would have been entitled to get the money back, but in this instance, you are entitled to nothing.

[Skinnymum]

please excuse my ignorance, but how do you mean by a higher debt??? how was it an imaginary amount if the monthly amount I was paying included a separate payment for the insurances and why did they accept the figure of £613 when they could have taken me to Court and gotten £3,000?

[Bookworm]

Because you hadn't paid it yet. I know it's a hard one to understand, believe me, because we get brainwashed into believing it is real money, but it isn't.

 

Let me see if I can make it clear, forgive me if it's not clear, I find it hard to put it in words even though it is clear in my head:

 

Loan, including PPI: £5000

Amount actually borrowed for you to use, what? Say £3000 (obviously, I don't know the correct amounts, bear with me).

So £3000 of that is "real" money they have lent you, and portion of what you pay monthly goes towards that, portion towards the PPI.

 

Problems, court etc. WF cut their loss and settle for £613 (don't ask me why though, I have no idea) for the debt. At that point, the debt still comprises money borrowed + PPI (and interest, but let's not go into that right now).

 

Then you go after them for PPI mis-sold and you win, they shouldn't have added the PPI in the first place. So they remove it from the total amount owed. But even with the PPI removed, you still have a balance owing of monies that you did borrow. The TO says the £613 is in F&F settlement of your debt, the fact they have adjusted their figures to remove the incorrectly added PPI is irrelevant.

 

You didn't pay that PPI. Whatever monies you did pay to the account have now been diverted towards the principal of the loan and it still leaves you owing them, so you didn't actually pay towards the PPI and so you are not entitled to any money back since you didn't pay it in the first place.

 

Is that any clearer? (I confuse myself)

[Skinnymum]

it does all get very confusing doesn't it? hmmm.... why then are there claim companies who deal with PPI's, refund of Bank charges etc., etc? I understand where you're coming from though. your 4th paragraph - The debt didn't include interest, nor PPI. This amount was simply the basic amount I would have paid them had they not misinformed me - minus the PPI and interest. Anyways................ what does one do when they have it in writing that someone else agrees to refund them monies (whether imaginary or not)? and if the balance owed according to them is not the true balance F&F settlement would that not mean that the F&F figure would in effect be in credit (whether imaginary or not). - j**z - all this does my 'ead in!!.. oh one more thing - if a portion of my money went towards a PPI which shouldn't have been on there in the first place - doesn't that mean that they basically "stole" that money off me? where did they put, or what did they do with the money that I was paying towards the PPI - are you saying that they applied it to the loan itself because if so, I woulnd't have owed them as much as they claimed I did (not that I owed them as much as they said I did in the first instance) - have I managed to confuse you???

[Bookworm]

Errr, yes.

 

 

I'll answer what I can, and pointedly ignore what I can't, lol.

 

why then are there claim companies who deal with PPI's, refund of Bank charges etc., etc? - Because some have been paid off altogether, some still have overdrafts and refunds will go towards paying them off, etc... As a rule of thumb, we on CAG tell people that if they still owe the financial institution money, you can't demand a payment by cheque, but you can in the case of closed/paid off accounts.

if a portion of my money went towards a PPI which shouldn't have been on there in the first place - doesn't that mean that they basically "stole" that money off me? - Not as such, although of course, it is potentially dishonest, but since you didn't actually pay that money...

where did they put, or what did they do with the money that I was paying towards the PPI - are you saying that they applied it to the loan itself because if so, I woulnd't have owed them as much as they claimed I did - yes, that's it. When they removed the PPI amount, your balance owing went down, but your payments made remained the same, so the monies you had paid went fully towards the loan amount and nothing towards the PPI, as if you hadn't had the PPI applied in the first place. Whew.

your 4th paragraph - The debt didn't include interest, nor PPI. This amount was simply the basic amount I would have paid them had they not misinformed me - minus the PPI and interest. - ok... but it doesn't change anything to the greater scheme of things: They removed PPI and you hadn't paid it, so it all evens out. I think.

 

Anyone got an aspirin? :-|

[Skinnymum]

oh dear - me got headache now too!..

right, so........... (can you tell I'm a woman?? lolol)).....

"if a portion of my money went towards a PPI which shouldn't have been on there in the first place - doesn't that mean that they basically "stole" that money off me? - Not as such, although of course, it is potentially dishonest, but since you didn't actually pay that money..."

 

they can't deny that a portion of my money did go towards something other than the loan else why call it an insurance in the first place. What would have happened if I had ever made a claim on the non existant PPI? and if it was dishonesty on their side, then whatever portions of monies I paid, should come back to me, especially if they've agreed to do so and more so when I've paid off the Tomlin Order?

 

let's face it, I think everyone who has had the unfortunate experience of having anything to do with WF will know that they're slaughterers.

 

Despite not having gone to Court, I received a statement not long after the Tomlin Order and guess what charges they had added???...... yep - you've guessed it - Court charges/legal fees!!!!...... According to the last statement I received WF had taken me to Court 7 times in one day - huh???..... 'bout time we had a laff on this WF stuff.....

[Bookworm]

Ah, now that's interesting, although veering slightly OT to your issue...

 

If you had had to make a claim, they would of course have declined (I take it the misselling happened because of non-eligibility?) and of course you would have been entitled to cancellation of the PPI and refund of all premiums so far paid... BUT they would still have refunded those to the account, thus diminishing the monies owing. Either way you look at it, the monies you have paid get redirected to diminish the "live" balance.

 

Interestingly enough, if that had been the case, then maybe you wouldn't have defaulted on the loan, since you would have had less to pay per month, and maybe the whole charade wouldn't have happened... But the fact remains that the TO says you agree to pay £613 to them and in turn, they write off the loan. If they then do some sleight of hand to make their books look better, that's really neither here nor there, do you see?

 

7 times, huh? Well, maybe they were hoping for 7 time's a charm, lol. I am sure you will have of course corrected their little mistake. ;-)

[Skinnymum]

Knowing what I know about them now, without a doubt they would not have upheld any claim made against the PPI.

 

You see my confusion/annoyance about the "live" balance though - live balance currently £555, so redirect to "balance owed" = imaginary PPI minus £555???.... (no?) - why have they agreed to pay something which doesn't exist - and more to the point, I now have to pay the claims company for "my victory"..

 

lol to charm!!... err...... they must have been looking forward to meeting me so much, they took me to court on other days too, but not so many times!.. I contacted their Solicitor to query the statement and she in turn was the person who told me that the TO supercedes all other figures/balances. Wonder if I could take them to Court for harrassment and total inefficiency?

 

Well me being me, I won't let the matter drop. I've come this far with them. If I'm going to waste time and energy, it will be on making their sorry little lives a little more miserable than they already are:p

[Bookworm]

That's the spirit. Just be careful that you don't get so enthusiatic that it comes back to bite you in the bum. Sometimes, you need to know when to let go (says she who's the worst for NOT doing what she's preaching, lol)

 

Good luck whatever your choice.

[Skinnymum]

Wouldn't quite agree that I'm enthusiastic about this!!.. , but 'tis OK. I only ever fight for what I believe in and if you don't try then you'll never know. You don't get anywhere in this world if you just sit back on your laurels and let people walk all over you, so as to letting go? hmm... when I'm convinced!.... and they won't bite me on the bum - I run too fast!!! lolol.

Cheers:D