Naughtypanther vs HSBC

[naughtypanther]

Now I am confused. What kind of defense would I be looking at if they drop that on me 2 weeks before court :-|

[johnnymitch]

Easy np, don't jump the gun ..... it's not likely to happen with what they've got ..... but if it does you'll get loads of advice on here on how to proceed ....... and probably a lot more notice than 2 weeks.....

[naughtypanther]

Cheers Johnnymitch, its much appreciated. I just am struggling to get a feel for exactly where I stand with it all. There are a lot of grey areas and contradictory facts kicking around.

 

If they were to produce a proper and valid agreement, what really is my stance then?

 

The latest com from MCS gave me 24 hours to make full and final payment before court proceedings etc. It arrived on the 26th, was dated 22nd (1 day after i sent my offer of settlement). I believe they received my letter on the 24th, then sent out the 24 hour final warning with an earlier date on, so as to justify moving to the next stage in their little game.

 

So I fully expect the next letter to be the beginning of their court action against me and am less clear now than ever as to where I stand.

 

By the way, 1:19AM, do you never sleep??

 

np

[vint1954]

Thanks for that vint Thing is, does that stop them taking me to court in the first place? And, more importantly, how does it put my 'account in dispute' stance? If the account is no longer in dispute then I am surely out of line by not making payments?

Hi NP,

 

I have had a look back through your thread, but cannot see exactly what they have sent you. What they need to send you for s78 is:

 

1. A copy of your original agreement. This can be a typed copy of the agreement that you signed, does not have to be a copy with your signature, but it must be so true as to be as the original.

 

2. A copy of the terms and conditions at the time you signed the agreement.

 

3. A copy of the current terms and conditions.

 

4. A signed statement of account, showing the amount outstanding and repayments due. For a running credit account ( credit card ) the latter is difficult to provide, as it can be a moving target, so they usually send a copy of your last statement.

 

If they have not supplied the documents above, then they remain in breach of s78. If they refuse to comply, then a complaint to the OFT is required. This needs to be kept narrow, just dealing with the fact that they have not complied with s78. Resist the temptation to use the opportunity for a good moan about HSBC.

 

If they fail to comply with your SAR, then this is a similar complaint to the ICO. Again, just deal with the facts.

 

While in breach of s78, your account is in dispute. There are many things that they should'nt do in this situation, but they will. Regrettably the Mcguffick case last year, gave them the green light to keep chasing for the debt while in dispute.

[vint1954]

Cheers Johnnymitch, its much appreciated. I just am struggling to get a feel for exactly where I stand with it all. There are a lot of grey areas and contradictory facts kicking around.

 

If they were to produce a proper and valid agreement, what really is my stance then?

 

The latest com from MCS gave me 24 hours to make full and final payment before court proceedings etc. It arrived on the 26th, was dated 22nd (1 day after i sent my offer of settlement). I believe they received my letter on the 24th, then sent out the 24 hour final warning with an earlier date on, so as to justify moving to the next stage in their little game.

 

So I fully expect the next letter to be the beginning of their court action against me and am less clear now than ever as to where I stand.

 

By the way, 1:19AM, do you never sleep??

 

np

As johnny has said, don't panic. I had one of hose 24 hour letters last November.

 

You will probably get a letter next from DG solicitors, which you need to respond to, then Clear Debt recovery. All of these people are HSBC.

 

In order to carry out any of the threats within these letters, they first have to obtain a County Court Judgement, which is a long way off, if at all.

 

Did you receive a Default Notice? If so, it would be helpful if uou could post it up, minus your personal details but leaving the dates in place. Also, was the amount requested in the DN, just the arrears or the full ballance. Hopefully you will have kept the envelope also.

[naughtypanther]

Hi Vint,

 

thanks for taking the time to go back through the thread, some of these threads get very cumbersome and hard work to go through and keep up with! I didnt post the exact details up of what they sent at the time as I didnt want this thread to get too bloated, and was convinced that what they sent didnt satisfy the request.

 

Given what you have listed above, it is likely then that they have indeed satisfied my CCA request. I will have to go back through it all and double check.

 

If that is the case, then the account is no longer in dispute, where does that put me?

 

Is there any mileage in the fact that it took them 4 months to do it, and meanwhile they continued to add interest? The total figure is now £1000 more than when it went into dispute!

[naughtypanther]

You type too fast!

 

Yes I received a default notice, I will try and scan it in at work today, and post it up this evening.

 

I paid less attention to the situation for a while, I need to regroup and go through everything i received with a fine tooth comb!

[Old Cogger]

Hi Vint,

 

thanks for taking the time to go back through the thread, some of these threads get very cumbersome and hard work to go through and keep up with! I didnt post the exact details up of what they sent at the time as I didnt want this thread to get too bloated, and was convinced that what they sent didnt satisfy the request.

 

Given what you have listed above, it is likely then that they have indeed satisfied my CCA request. I will have to go back through it all and double check.

 

If that is the case, then the account is no longer in dispute, where does that put me?

 

Is there any mileage in the fact that it took them 4 months to do it, and meanwhile they continued to add interest? The total figure is now £1000 more than when it went into dispute!

 

They will add full monthly payments to the account up to the limit and over, especially if you are not making payments that is why the account mounts ups fast. They did it to me.

[naughtypanther]

They will add full monthly payments to the account up to the limit and over, especially if you are not making payments that is why the account mounts ups fast. They did it to me.

 

They sure try every trick in the book. My point here is, they shouldn't have added these when there was a clear dispute on the account. So the total sum they are demanding is inaccurate, as is the sum on the default. Is this enough to make the default invalid? Could they reissue an accurate one? They already closed the account..

[naughtypanther]

Hello again one and all, long time no speak?!! So a further thanks to all those still here that chipped in above years back!

 

Well, for those that remember (unlikely I know) or read back thru the above (dont waste your time, I wouldnt!!) this thread was about me VS HSBC over a credit card that got out of hand. I have spent the past 3 years making reasonable offers of settlement (and being knocked back) and fobbing off HSBCs various collector guises (DG etc), and making small token monthly payments.

 

That all stopped recently when they unleashed wescot on me. I stopped making the token payments to HSBC, and I stopped wescot in their tracks with a letter.

 

Presumably as a reaction to the above, HSBC have called in the overdraft I have with them in a current account. (had this account all the time since this all started, I managed to reduce it over time but its not cleared).

 

Somebody (who isnt a bank) will lend me what I need to clear the overdraft and close the account. However, my concern is that once I have cleared the overdraft (I have 30 days) HSBC will take money out to reclaim part of the credit card debt, only to then remove the OD facility and put me in the doo doo again. Is this something they are likely to do? If so, are there any clever ways of avoiding this? I dont use the account, its just a debt sat there, and I want to clear it, but cant afford to risk them to play silly tricks like this.

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Naughtypanther.

[Old Cogger]

if you pay in and clear overdraft then c lose acount there and then, do not think you will have a problem as the credit card is recorded elsewhere, pay in then immediate zero statement then close account there and then. is what I would think about doing, leave no time in between, and make sure you get the assistants name that you see to close on the zero balance immediatly? sure others may comment on this.

[naughtypanther]

Hey Mike, many thanks for that (and all the previous advice years back!).

 

I wouldnt like to rely on timing like that. I suspect that I wont be able to zero balance the account anyway, as there will be a final interest payment to be factored in. I also predict they wont allow me pay it and close it in person, hence giving them more space to pull a fast one. The old credit card account is long closed, I know thyre seperate, but its no coincidence they did this 7 days after me stopping wescot in their tracks. I dont doubt that the account is being monitored now for this exact reason. Any time i paid off a significant amount before I always phoned up and immediately reduced the overdraft, but I suspect now they've given notice on it nobody will be able to change that if I call up.

 

Cheers, Naughtypanther : )

[Old Cogger]

well that is what I would do butif the acount was not fully cleared that is another problem, see if others may have a better idea?

[naughtypanther]

HI all,

 

so, this matter has evolved!!

 

I paid off the overdraft progressively, paying an amount then calling the bank to reduce the overdraft, until the balance was cleared, overdraft cancelled, and enough credit in there to cover the final interest payments. I went into the branch and, without filling in any forms, got the account closed. Was told it would be a couple of days before I heard anything.

 

So, a week has passed, I called up the bank telebanking and found the account is still active. They also told me my credit card account was there too (havent heard this mentioned in a while),

 

I am wondering, have they re activated my old credit card account so as to prevent me closing the current account? I seem to remember a clause saying that the CC required an active current account?

 

Anybody shed any light on this? To clarify, the CC was 'closed' several years ago, they have been pursuing me for the balance via D&G MCS etc.. Now it seems to be open again, conveniently. Was considering making a ful and final offer on the CC, but that has gone out of the window now they seem to be playing games. Unsure what they hope to achieve?!

[Old Cogger]

two different accounts = know no reasson why current account is not closed, credit card comes under a diffferent area. ? never heard of this, maybe another person may enlighten us on this subject, also could ask FOS the question ring them?

[naughtypanther]

Hi, cheers, I thought that a condition of the CC was that you had to have a current account with them, I seem to remember not being allowed to close the current account while the credit card was active because of this. Hence I suspect that is why they have reinstated the CC account. how do they stand legally reinstating an account they had already closed years ago, in my name, without my permission?..

[Old Cogger]

Do you have the final statement showing zero balance or closure balance, or a letter to the fact of closure, may help to contact FOS and ask them the rule.

[naughtypanther]

No, i was initially told a form needed to be filled out, but a nice lady took me into a room and (allegedly) did it manually there and then. No printed proof in my hand. I have evidence the overdraft was zeroed, and also have proof the account has enough in credit to cover remaining interest payments..

 

I will visit branch tomorrow and see what they have to say. If they play games I am going to look at the option of legal action, as if they have done what I think, I feel I have enough now to form a case against them. Its clear their actions are calculated. I could be jumping the gun I admit, time will tell.

 

Cheers : )

[Old Cogger]

o.k.

[naughtypanther]

Oh, and in answer to the question i asked a couple of weeks ago, in case its of any use to people reading this:

 

I was concerned that as I paid my overdraft that they would try to use the spare balance I was creating to 'set off', I was advised (I believe by National Debtline) that they cannot use one debt (ie space in my overdraft) to set off to pay the other debt (credit card). I took the precaution of paying a chunk off then calling up and reducing the overdraft, then paying more off then reducing again etc etc until account was in credit and overdraft cancelled.

[naughtypanther]

For reference, I had to go back into the branch to finalise, but the account was closed without issue and I finally received a statement confirming the same.

 

Now to go and see how much I can borrow(!) to make a full and final payment offer on the credit card this all started with.

 

Thanks to all for all the help now and before.

 

Cheers, Naughtypanther : )

[Old Cogger]

I was concerned that as I paid my overdrafticon that they would try to use the spare balance I was creating to 'set off', I was advised (I believe by National Debtline) that they cannot use one debt (ie space in my overdraft) to set off to pay the other debt (credit card). I took the precaution of paying a chunk off then calling up and reducing the overdraft, then paying more off then reducing again etc etc until account was in credit and overdraft cancelled.

 

 

That mybe why HSBC pay up on PPI (Loan) when loan used to repay credit cards etc?