CCJ Cope's Solicitors/Arrow Global

[blondie1971]

Please can anyone give me some advice?

 

I am a new member to this site and still a novice at getting around, I have started this new thread but I did post into a previous thread last week explaining full details of my case.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/191623-help-need-advice-re.html

 

I currently have an ongoing court case with Cope's solicitors who are acting on behalf of Arrow Global Receivables Management, they have succesfully obtained a CCJ (by default) against me and are now seeking a charging order to the sum of £19k

 

After reperesenting myself in court 3 times so far and filing a request to get judgement set aside (which was dismissed by the judge but did agree to vary the judgement order, as i managed to obtain evidence of payment for part of the amount of the claim).

 

I am getting more and more frustrated as clearly cope's seem to be winning this battle with little/no evidence to support their claim using deceitful, lying tactics to get their way. I have also learnt alot over the past few days looking around this site and other peoples threads/posts as to how things should or shouldn't legally happen and compared them to my circumstances.

 

There are several things that have become apparant that Cope's have failed to carry out with their claim, but one thing I have noticed today is that on the original claim form which was sent from Northampton County Court the particulars of claim states "the claimant's claim is for monies due from the defendant under an agreement between the parties dated 24th December 1997, regulated under the consumer credit Act 2006. Full particulars whereof have been delivered to the defendat. The claimant also claims costs"

 

I was not sent the full particulars of the claim by the claimant and still have not received them!!!

Is it not a legal requirement for the claimant to have full particulars served with the original claim form issued from the court, or alternatively serve them seperately on the defendant enclosing a copy of the claim form within 7 or 14 days??

 

Also as the particulars of the claim state 'under an agreement between the parties'

my agreement was with Universal Credit not Arrow Global receivables!!!

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I am at my witts end and I'm back in court next week for a Case Management Conference.

 

Thankyou :confused:

[Docman]

Hi Blondie and welcome to CAG,

 

I think your earlier post got lost. It is alsways better to start your own thread about an issue as you have now done.

 

i'm on a break now and so I'll have a more detailed look at lunch time but I am posting this so that your thread is 'bumped' for others to contribute.

[the_shadow]

It could be nothing but its interesting the POC state that the agreement was governed by the CCA2006 and not CCA1974??

 

Wonder if thats to get around any possible lack of prescribed terms in any documentation?

 

"the claimant's claim is for monies due from the defendant under an agreement between the parties dated 24th December 1997, regulated under the consumer credit Act 2006. Full particulars whereof have been delivered to the defendat. The claimant also claims costs"

 

Just a thought

 

Personally you need to get hold of that agreement and attempt to get it set aside... you'll have to have a different reason to set aside from the last time though I believe.

 

Have you CCA'd Arrow global who I assume were the debt owners at time of proceedings?

 

S.

[Docman]

Blondie

First of all, a claim brought online through the Northampton County Court doesn't have the evidence attached to the claim. The evidence is supposed to be available but often isn't supplied. Some firms of solicitors, knowing they have poor or even no documents, file online thereby avoiding the need to produce anything. If a defendant doesn't respond, they get judgment by default. If a defendant files a defence, quite often the solicitors then go for summary judgment in the local court.

You might think if the claim then is looked at a judge in your local court, you would win if there is poor or no evidence. Not so. Quite often, the case is heard by a judge (or even a deputy judge) who doesn't (a) know consumer credit law and (b) doesn't want his lack of knowledge seen by the claimant's solicitor. The result is bad judgments based on a lack of knowledge, bullying by claimants solicitors and a defendant who is often scarred out of their mind by the process. As you have discovered, getting a solicitor to defend is not easy. Not many solicitors know enough about consumer credit law but do realise that if you had a couple of hundred you would have paid the claimant and probably do not have money to pay for the defence.

Ok, now I've had my rant, let's get down to business. I’ve had a look at your posts on the other thread. Can you post up the following after removing any identifying parts or retype into the post?

1. A copy of the original loan agreement sent by Cope's

2. The defence you sent to Northampton in December 2007. Was this sent online or did you post an unsigned hard copy to the court? If you filed your defence online, you do not sign the defence. The rules state

“Signature

10

Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form..”

[Civil Procedure Rules Part 7 Practice Direction paragraph 10.]

If the judge granted a summary judgment on the basis that the defence filed online wasn’t signed, he was wrong.

3. A copy of your set aside application. What reasons did the judge give for dismissing the application?

I understand you are in court again on 19 June. What exactly is that hearing for?

[blondie1971]

Hi Docman & The Shadow

 

Thanks for your replies, I will upload all the documents a little later today (I dont have facility at present)

 

I have got a copy of the credit agreement which was sent to me by Cope's Sol after judgement was entered and I telephoned them direct. It was sent with a couple of other sheets showing some print screen shots of payments I had made on the account also with a cover letter stating that this information had already been supplied to me in 2008. (which is a lie as a couple of the sheets are dated after Feb 08, something I did highlight to the judge who's response was that he agreed with me and they were lying)!

 

As I was so scared and blackmailed into not filing a request for judgement to be set aside, it was at the 1st hearing in Dec 08 (application for charging order) that the judge said I should file a request to set judgement aside, he told me to put the reason on the request to "ask the court to assess in full the amount claimed", (i think this was based on the fact that I could prove in excess of £3k that I had paid which cope's had no record of) At the 2nd hearing Feb 09, he dismissed it but didn't give a reason but agreed to vary the amount by the sum I could prove (plus interest).

 

Q. Can you file a 2nd request for judgement to be set aside with a different reason?

 

The hearing I went to in April 09 was a case management conference, this was to assess if cope's/arrow agreed to the varied amount. Cope's agreed to reduce the amount but only that amount and no interest. This is when the judge got nasty with me as I challenged this (different judge to previous hearing) - I outlined that the judge in the previous hearing had asked cope's to take into account any interest which will have accrued on the amount I could prove. Unfortunately the court did not state this on the order (their error) but I did stand my ground and the judge adjorned the hearing until 19th June, in the interim Cope's had to serve within 14 days (from the April hearing) their response to me, I then had a further 14 days to respond to their response!! I got a letter from Cope's on 14th day refusing to include any interest, which also stated my ongoing dispute was merely a delay tactic!!

 

I think I had mentioned in a previous post that a company called 'Loancheck' sent an SAR notice to Arrow on my behalf in Dec 08 enclosing a £10 cheque which I had given them. To date Arrow have not responded - although they cashed my chq in Feb 08. Loancheck have sent 2 further follow up letters one giving them a further 7 days and the second a final waring. Apparantly Loancheck are writing to the commissioners office this week to report them for not responding and also cashing the cheque but not supplying the information. Loancheck are posting to me all the correspondence they have sent so far to Arrow, so I can have this with me in court on 19th June which is a Case Management conference, I presume this is to follow up from the one in April and to asses the responses given by the claimant and the defendant????

 

Anyway, I will post all documents up in a couple of hours.

Thanks again for your advice so far, I've been sooooo worried, it's such a relief to get some advice, and also being new to this site and finding my way around has made me aware i'm not on my own!!

 

Many Thanks

Blondie

[Docman]

Thanks Blondie.

 

can you also confirm whether you filed your original defence online or sent in a hard copy and can you also include the wording on the Order in July 2008 giving summary judgment. I think this is important since you may be able to get a late appeal against the set aside refusal on the grounds that the Court misdirected itself as to the law rather than that the claimant hadn't submitted evidence to substantiate their claim.

[blondie1971]

Hi Docman

 

I filed a hard copy defence to which i don't seem to have kept a copy, apparantly I did not sign this.

As I had know particulars of claim and I had never heard of or had any dealings with arrow global, and was shocked at the amount of the claim amount - I just disputed the whole amount on my defence and stated who are arrow global receivables and what is the amount for, to which they are claiming?

I did however have acknowledgement of my defence from Northampton they did not state that I hadn't signed it (in fact I telephoned them to ask what to do and did what they advised)!!!!

In the letter they state that the claimant has 28 days to contact the court after receiving my defence. Apparantly Cope's didn't make any contact with the court again until July 08 where they applied for the stay to be lifted?????? and then the ball starting rolling again!!!!

Also it's aload of croc what cope's are stating that they maintain all documents had been previously provided to me in Feb 08, and even if this where true they had passed their 28 day deadline anyway surely???

 

I have attached a file which contains all documents, and also evidence which cope's sent me after judgment was entered.

 

I hope it all makes sense

 

Thanks again

Blondie

Edited June 11, 2009 by blondie1971

[the_shadow]

Hi Docman

 

 

Thanks again

Blondie

 

Hi Blondie,

 

The court papers have the claim ref and your password on them? Not sure if you want to take the archive file down or not.

 

You seem to be missing both a default notice and a termination letter.

 

S.

[blondie1971]

Hi S

 

Do you think I should pull the file down?

 

What do you mean a password?

 

Termination Notice and Default notice are the official court documents?

 

Blondie

[the_shadow]

Hi S

 

Do you think I should pull the file down?

 

What do you mean a password?

 

Termination Notice and Default notice are the official court documents?

 

Blondie

 

You can be identified from the files you have put up, its up to you if you mind copes/arrow being able to find you. You can forget the password, its on the main original claim form and was for ack service on that claim.

 

Nope, the original lender has to send you a default notice to exit the agreement correctly... this is normally followed by a termination letter and then either sold to a DCA or you get taken to court.

 

You dont appear to have a default notice in the zipfile when I looked?

 

S.

[blondie1971]

I think i will take it off, can you advise me how to do this?

 

Blondie

[the_shadow]

I think i will take it off, can you advise me how to do this?

 

Blondie

 

Go to the post and in the bottom right of the post there is an edit button, when in the editing screen click on the paperclip and I think you just remove the attachment (sorry I dont normally do attachments)

 

If that doesnt work click on the red triangle in the bottom left of the post and ask a mod to delete the file asap.

 

S.

[blondie1971]

Ok, Thanks

[faza]

hi, the options you now have would probably be to.

 

1) Phone the court who made the county court judgement, give them the case number and ask them that you had an attempt to have the judgement set aside refused and is there any civil order on your claim which refuses you to make another attempt to have the judgement set aside.

 

if there is not a civil restriction order then you can make another attempt to have the order set aside using form n244.

 

if there is a restriction then what you need to do is, ask the judges/court managers leave(permission) to make another order to have the judgement set aside, you can do this on form n244, if you need to know how just ask.

 

now the reasons you must give are ones which the court will accept as being fundamental for justice to be carried out.

 

for example your ccj was entered in default this was because you never received the summons, original claim, POC, hence you have not been able to defend yourself in court and you believe you have a very good chance of defending part of claim if not all of the claim and it is in the interest of justice that you be allowed to defend yourself.

 

this link explains setting aside:

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part13.htm

 

hopefully once you have your judgement set aside, everything starts from the begining again and you can deal with things from afresh.

 

the main thing you want to do now is get the judgement set aside.

 

also if possible get hold of the original contract agreement and all the charges made by the company and see what charges are unfair, this will allow you to challenge the claim in your defence, once judgement has been set aside.

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert Anything posted on this forum is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as legal advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may be different for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an legal expert who can advise you after finding out more about your situation.

Edited June 11, 2009 by faza

[the_shadow]

Blondie,

 

The Default Notice is a key document, without it this should never have got near a courtroom. Are you sure you dont have it? It would have been sent from the original creditor.

 

I note you say a SAR went out to Arrow, did they SAR universal Credit at the same time?

 

SARing a DCA doesnt usually bring back much as the original creditor rarely passes most of the information to the DCA.

 

S.

[saintly_1]

Blondie1971 ...... what I have done is unapprove the attachment until you can amend it

 

saint

[blondie1971]

Hi Shadow

 

I have this week sent SAR to Universal

 

I haven't got any evidence of a default notice, I was paying Paragon my monthly installments (albeit reduced) upto and including Sept 07, The claim form from Cope's /arrow from Northampton CC was received Nov 07

 

Blondie

[the_shadow]

Hi Shadow

 

I have this week sent SAR to Universal

 

I haven't got any evidence of a default notice, I was paying Paragon my monthly installments (albeit reduced) upto and including Sept 07, The claim form from Cope's /arrow from Northampton CC was received Nov 07

 

Blondie

 

Hi Blondie... you'll need to edit the documents and re-post as theres quite a bit of info in all that and more experienced eyes will need to see them...

 

I'm not very good on loan agreements but it looks like the prescribed terms are on it... notice the lender has not signed the application though although that can be rectified by an application to the court by the lender/debt owner.

 

You say you never got a Default notice, did you get a termination letter (sometimes just a "goodbye" we've sold your debt) and a "hello" letter from Arrow?

 

S.

[blondie1971]

Docman/the Shadow

 

I have deleted all case sensetive info from documents and re-attached

 

Thanks

Blondie

New Compressed (zipped) Folder.zip

[blondie1971]

Blondie

 

First of all, a claim brought online through the Northampton County Court doesn't have the evidence attached to the claim. The evidence is supposed to be available but often isn't supplied. Some firms of solicitors, knowing they have poor or even no documents, file online thereby avoiding the need to produce anything. If a defendant doesn't respond, they get judgment by default. If a defendant files a defence, quite often the solicitors then go for summary judgment in the local court.

 

You might think if the claim then is looked at a judge in your local court, you would win if there is poor or no evidence. Not so. Quite often, the case is heard by a judge (or even a deputy judge) who doesn't (a) know consumer credit law and (b) doesn't want his lack of knowledge seen by the claimant's solicitor. The result is bad judgments based on a lack of knowledge, bullying by claimants solicitors and a defendant who is often scarred out of their mind by the process. As you have discovered, getting a solicitor to defend is not easy. Not many solicitors know enough about consumer credit law but do realise that if you had a couple of hundred you would have paid the claimant and probably do not have money to pay for the defence.

 

Ok, now I've had my rant, let's get down to business. I’ve had a look at your posts on the other thread. Can you post up the following after removing any identifying parts or retype into the post?

 

1. A copy of the original loan agreement sent by Cope's

2. The defence you sent to Northampton in December 2007. Was this sent online or did you post an unsigned hard copy to the court? If you filed your defence online, you do not sign the defence. The rules state

“Signature

10

Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form..”

[Civil Procedure Rules Part 7 Practice Direction paragraph 10.]

 

If the judge granted a summary judgment on the basis that the defence filed online wasn’t signed, he was wrong.

 

3. A copy of your set aside application. What reasons did the judge give for dismissing the application?

 

I understand you are in court again on 19 June. What exactly is that hearing for?

 

Hi Docman

 

I have posted up all the documents I have for the case, did you get a chance to look at them

 

Blondie

[the_shadow]

Docman/the Shadow

 

I have deleted all case sensetive info from documents and re-attached

 

Thanks

Blondie

 

Blondie can you post the two CCA agreements up into this thread, I notice there are no cancellation rights on the agreement and I'm not sure if there is a significance.

 

Post them here ->>http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful-29.html

 

 

Cheers

 

S.

[Docman]

Hi Blondie

I’ve had a look at the documents you have posted and it does seem you have been the victim of the system. So that other Caggers can appreciate the issues, I’ve set out below a time line of events as I understand them and also reposted a couple of the important documents. In my opinion, there are some major flaws in which the court has operated but the application you made isn’t the best I have seen and probably have gone against you. It shouldn’t have done and you should have been able to defend the case by just using the form you filled in. However, that didn’t happen and I think the judge has been harsh although probably acting within the rules. A decent judge should have allowed for the fact that you are a litigant in person and granted some leeway.

Here’s the time line. Please correct as necessary:

Pre litigation

Oct 1997 – Loan for £10,000 with PPI cover from Universal Credit Ltd trading as Cavendish Finance, then part of the Lloyds TSB group.

March 1998 - Universal/Cavendish become part of the Paragon Group

July 1998 - Universal/Cavendish stop collecting direct debits

May 2001 - Repayments start being collected by Paragon

July 2007 - Unable to meet latest increased repayment. I & E budget sent.

Sept 2007 - Repayments to Paragon stopped

Nov 2007 - N1 claim form from Northampton County Court

Legal Proceeding with Cope’s

22 Nov 07 N1 from ‘Arrow Global Receivables Manag Limited’

6 Dec 07 Ack of defence from Northampton County Court

May 2008 Cope’s request Stay to be lifted and application for SJ

25 July 08 Notice from local court. SJ application to be heard 5/9/08

31 July 08 Cope’s write to Court

2 Sept 08 Court grant judgment for £19413 on grounds no response to claim

5 Sept 08 SJ hearing vacated

28 Oct 08 Interim charging Order

16 Dec 08 Hearing for Final Charging Order – adjourned for set aside application

11 Feb 09 Set aside application dismissed. Treated as application to vary SJ

Cope’s order to file response by 4 Mar 09

7 Apr 09 Case Management conference. Cope’s agree to reduction of £3161.

Further response ordered from Cope’s to interest reduction claim

28 Apr 09 Response from Cope’s refusing further reduction

19 June 09 Adjourned case management conference to consider interest

Attachments

I have blown up parts of the agreement. I don’t think it is enforceable and invite other Caggers to comment.

Tactics

The hearing on 19 June is to determine the interest due on the repayment you originally made. Cope’s refuse to reduce their claim by an amount to cover the interest. I would hope that the judge finds this is surprising, since the interest is simply the amount (£3161 x the number of months x the interest rate) but given your luck with the judge, I doubt it. I suggest you explain that to the judge but to make matters simpler for the judge, you should have a figure in mind that you would accept. You might to think about £50 per month since you paid over the £3k. ( £3161 * 19.95% APR = £52.55 per month).

Let the judge determine a figure. Don’t argue with him at this stage. Go onto to ask for a reduction in the amount of the monthly repayment to a level you can afford. You will need to have done an income and expenditure assessment to show if you want to pay less than £100 per month.

I haven’t said anything about the original judgment. IMO, that was wrong for a whole host of reasons. But raising the issue again on 19 June will only antagonise the judge. If he asks a direct question if you owe the money, I suggest the answer is you do not consider you owe the claimant anything and that you are waiting for the Court to determine the amount of the judgment before considering your next course of action.

Now, to determine what needs to be done next, you need to get access to the court file and get a copy of your original defence and the letter dated 31 July 2008. As a party, you can view the court file and take copies of documents but the court may charge a small fee. Bear in mind that the court file will be with the judge on 19 June, so you will either have to go to the court on Monday or Tuesday or wait until after the hearing. If you could then take out your personal details and those identifying the court, and post them up, I think other Caggers could advise whether it is possible to appeal or to make a proper set aside application again.

CCA.pdf

CCJ.pdf

N1 claim form.pdf

[blondie1971]

Thanks so much Docman.

 

I have just telephoned the court and I am going in on Monday. The receptionist I spoke to did say that I should have all the documention they hold on file???

 

I also asked her which judge was assigned to my hearing next Friday (hoping it wasn't Mr Nasty as last time). Apparantly it is a new judge (female) the receptionist sais she was really nice. I waffled to her about my bad experience in the last hearing - the receptionist almost agreed with me!!!! and also pointed out that it was important for me to highlight anything I was not happy with to this 'nice' judge next Friday???

 

I will post up copies of what I get on Monday.

 

Thanks again for your help

Blondie

[Docman]

Excellent news. Maybe next Friday won't be too bad afterall.

 

I have attached a copy of the court's rules [Civil Procedure Rules] which you might like to have in your bag when you go on Monday, just in case someone ask what authority you have to get copy documents. They are CPR 5 and the practice Direction [PD]. The rule is 5.4B and also paragraph 4.1 of the PD.

part05.pdf

pd_part05.pdf

[faza]

1) you will have to phone the court, give them your claim number and ask them if any restrictions have been put on your claim to make another order to set aside.

 

a) if yes you will need to ask leave of the court to make another order to have the judgement set aside.

 

b) if not you can go ahead and make another order to have the judgement set aside.

 

as long as you give the court a valid reason to have the judgement set aside they will set it aside, the role of the court is to be fair and not to take sides.

 

as long as you can get the court to set aside judgement then this will give you time to deal with the claim.

 

 

 

 

I am not a legal expert Anything posted on this forum is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as legal advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may be different for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an legal expert who can advise you after finding out more about your situation.