LLoyds TSB CCA ! Any advice please

[Capricorn1601]

subbing

 

They defaulted my account... received letter yesterday. SAR off today as they still havent complied with my CCA or CPR 31.6 request all I have received is their 'we have thrown this together version on recycled paper to fob you off' attempt.

[vint1954]

Update - another leter from Lloyds saying that they apologise for not resolving my complaint - not been able to do as yet - wil write againin four wekd.

Also received statement with a mesage saying that they have instructed a debt company MHA!

When you get a letter from MHA:

 

Dear Sirs,

Re Lloyds account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Your ref xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I was somewhat bemused to receive your letter dated xxxxx September, received today, xxxxxxxSeptember.

I note with interest you have been instructed by your client, XXXXXXXXX, to recover the outstanding balance on the above account and the fact you also have now formally demand immediate payment of the full balance, on behalf of your client following their own attempts to ignore the legal process.

As xxxxxxxXXXXXXXX have passed this account to you for collection, you will no doubt be in possession of all of my past correspondence, however I will explain the situation again to you.

xxxxxxxx are aware that this account is in dispute and the reasons why it remains in dispute. xxxxxxxx have not supplied a credible response to my s78 request. Despite this, xxxxxxx seem determined to ignore the Law.

Let me explain the relevant main points of the Law and OFT regulations while the account is in dispute and xxxxxxxxx remain in default, which now also applies to your organisation.

• XXXXXXXX may not ask for payment against this account.
  
• I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
  
• XXXXXXXX cannot register any data with a third party.
  
• XXXXXXXX cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
  
• XXXXXXXX cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
  
• XXXXXXXX cannot sell the account.
  

I have written to XXXXXXXX on many occasions, pointing out the facts above and detailing the relevant laws that apply. I have no intention of listing them again and again here. It appears that XXXXXXXX ignore these letters and intend to ignore the Law, now further confirmed by their latest actions involving yourselves.

Following XXXXXXXX’s previous threats of legal action, they have again failed to supply a true copy of any alleged agreement under CPR 31:16, as I have requested.

I am formulating official complaints to the OFT, Trading Standards and my MP. I will request that my MP passes my complaint on to the relevant Minister for advice\action. I am sure that the regulatory bodies, will take better notice of a minister, rather than just an individual such as myself.

I suggest that your organisation, passes this matter back to XXXXXXXX to resolve, thus avoiding a further complaint regarding MHA.

I confirm any further costs you incur in this matter will be of your own and XXXXXXXX’s making, due to failure to read my correspondence and take heed of the current legal situation that exists and therefore will be at your own liability.

I further confirm that as my account has been referred to yourselves, if you attempt to call on me to discuss this matter, as you have threatened to do, I will contact the police without delay, to have any representative removed from my premises and commence harassment proceedings against them, you and your client. Please find below, a notice below, revoking licence for your organisation or its representatives, to visit my home. This notice has previously been issued to your client.

TAKE URGENT NOTE:

I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE ANY REPRESENTATIVE OF YOUR ORGANISATION, OR INDEED AN AGENT OR REPRESENTATIVE EMPLOYED BY ANY ORGANISATION THAT YOU ISSUE INSTRUCTIONS TO.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.)

THEREFORE TAKE NOTE THAT I REVOKE LICENSE UNDER COMMON LAW FOR YOU, OR YOUR REPRESENTATIVES TO VISIT ME AT MY PROPERTY AND IF YOU DO SO, THEN YOU WILL BE LIABLE FOR DAMAGES FOR A TORT OF TRESSPASS AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO , POLICE ATTENDANCE.

 

I also caution you here that should you ignore my request on this point, the actions of your representative(s) will happily be recorded either by CCTV or by telephone recording equipment – whichever is applicable. Accordingly I reserve the right to use any evidence of you or your representatives’ ignoring this request in connection with any actions that I choose to pursue, including media exposure.

 

Should it be your intention to disregard my wishes, and break your obligations, please be advised that the following rules also apply, as laid down by the OFT in respect of debt collection, and that you, as a holder of a consumer credit license, are obliged to follow:

The areas of the OFT guidance which applies to you in this instance are:

Debt collection visits

2.12 Examples of unfair practices are:

 

a. not making the purpose of any proposed visit clear, for example, merely stating that collectors or field agents will call is not sufficient

f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement or when the debt is deadlocked or disputed

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

Data Protection Act, section 10.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any third parties and credit reference agencies.

Please confirm that you have complied with my request under section 10 of the Data Protection Act.

 

Yours sincerely

[popscot]

Hi,

 

I am getting the same letters as you at around the same time. I am enjoying the dance and after a threat about OFT the phone calls have stopped, but I got a new letter today. It is from MHA offering me 'special offers' for clearing my debt.

 

Looks like they don't think much of their chances in court!

 

The advice on here is great, and with all the support we can beat them! :grin:

[Capricorn1601]

that begs the question why have they defaulted me so early without all these games of sending to dca's?

[vint1954]

They will default you as part of the process of going to a DCA.

[Capricorn1601]

So everyone else has had the official Default notice from them?

[StayingCalm]

Hi LB145

 

Following your thread with interest.

 

I too have recently received the same letter and 2 x T&C from Lloyds in response to my CCA request. Also the same letter from **** and now the same letter from MHA has just arrived.

 

If you look at the small print at the bottom of the MHA letter you will see MHA is a trading name of Lloyds.

 

You will also see all letters from Lloyds TSB (credit card statements), **** and MHA all have the same PO Box 487, Brighton return address on the back of the envelopes.

 

Regards

SC

[scrambledbyegg]

I received the following twice from LLoyds.

lloydscc.pdf

 

After many complaints received the attached today, is it time for a SAR?

ltsb_rep_red.pdf

[Spamalot]

I received the following twice from LLoyds.

[ATTACH]12711[/ATTACH]

 

After many complaints received the attached today, is it time for a SAR?

[ATTACH]12712[/ATTACH]

 

This is when you complain to the FOS about Lloyds behaviour... they invite you to do so but don't expect you to..

 

Do you have a thread on this??

[LB145]

Latest update - nothing from them at the moment - all quiet (um worrying???) - Just not so good at sitting back!

[RHOOD]

Latest update - nothing from them at the moment - all quiet (um worrying???) - Just not so good at sitting back!

 

Bad news travels quickly, therefore no news = good news perhaps.

 

Fighting Lloyds for Brother in law as they are chasing him for

UNLAWFUL BANK CHARGES.

 

sent in large RED LETTERS ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

they seem to like that colour on there letters to us.

Has anybody recieved calls from Lloyds / BLS after nine o'clock on there

automated calling system ?

 

sent in 2nd complaint today and told BLS to go and suck eggs.

 

MEETING WITH MEMBER OF PARLIMENT me thinks as this Bank was bailed out by us the TAXPAYERS !

 

R hood

[LB145]

I received the following twice from LLoyds.

[ATTACH]12711[/ATTACH]

 

After many complaints received the attached today, is it time for a SAR?

[ATTACH]12712[/ATTACH]

 

 

There was no CCA agreement in my SAR package - my package consisted of four items

 

1)Covering letter in response to my request for CCA

 

2)Typed document (not on headed paper) Titled " Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974- only personal info on this is name and address - no dates - no amounts just printed terms

 

3) Another typed document titled "Your credit card conditions"

Again just name and address typed in.

4) Copy of latest statement

 

Just received the letter from MHA will send Vints wonderful letter off today. (Cheers Vint!)

[RHOOD]

attachment 12712 is just a standard letter - i've seen a few on here

[vint1954]

Scrambelled by egg,

 

The application contains no prescribed terms and is illegible.

 

Drawing down and repaying debt does not make an agreement enforceable. Are they Mad? It may acknowledge that an agreement exists, but that is all.

 

The banks agreements cannot have always complied with the act, because that one does not.

[scrambledbyegg]

Hi Vint, thanks for the advice, I am going to send a letter based (basically the same to be honest) on yours on this thread and also probably a SAR just to confirm that no agreement actually exists (pretty sure I would remember signing such a thing and would have my own copy somewhere, which I don't).

 

They (Lloyds) sent another reply dated three days after the one I posted, slightly different format but basically saying the same BS, just adding that they don't feel that its harassment and that they and their representatives are entitled to use these kinds of activities since they feel the CCA request has been satisfied and that they are confident the debt exists, after all they are perfect and have never done anything wrong ever and they are always right, must be the reason we bailed them out then!

 

I has started this thread ages ago but this one seemed more relevant.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/196019-lloyd-credit-card-application.html#post2460912

 

Cheers for the advice.

[scrambledbyegg]

Which do I send this one?

I note that you have included a copy of the document, which you aver to be the copy of the credit agreement between us

 

Now I wish to draw your attention to a series of concerns that I have with that document and why I feel that you have not discharged your duties under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

The document headed “Credit Card Application Form” contains no prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 SI 1983/1553.

 

To avoid any argument, the prescribed terms for this style of agreement (running account credit) are as follows

 

1. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit,

 

2. A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement

 

3. A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Now im sure you are aware as per Wilson & FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 among others that if the prescribed terms are not in the agreement then the agreement is rendered unenforceable

 

To be honest it is difficult to tell what the document contains since it is not legible, and as a consequence I believe that the document fails to comply with Regulation 2 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

For your information, I reproduce regulation 2(1) for your reference

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1)The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

Clearly as the document you have supplied is not easily legible you cannot say that you have discharged your obligations under section 78(1) as the document does not comply with the copy document regs referred to above

 

Now to resolve this matter you can either supply me a copy of my agreement, which is in a legible form where all the terms are clearly stated and the prescribed terms are embodied within the agreement

 

Or alternatively, we can lay the agreement which you have produced in reply to my statutory request pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 before the county court and I will request pursuant to section 142(1) of the CCA that the court make an order on the enforceability of that document.

 

However I am sure that the bank would not be keen on this happening as should the court rule that the agreement is not enforceable and you cannot provide a better copy than what you already have then the court would have no other option but to rule the agreement unenforceable

 

I think I have set out my position clearly and have even reproduced excerpts of the legislation on which I base my case, therefore I respectfully request that you reply to this letter within 14 days setting out if you can supply a more legible copy of the agreement or what action you propose to resolve this dispute if you cannot although the only real obvious option if you cannot provide a better copy would be for the bank to zero the balance on this debt as it cannot be enforced without a truly legible signed credit agreement containing the required prescribed terms

 

Or Vints from the first page on this thread?

[scrambledbyegg]

Update

 

I received this reply the other day! Have now issued a SAR against them

lloyds_end_dis_red.pdf

Edited October 12, 2009 by scrambledbyegg
change attachement

[LB145]

Update

 

I received this reply the other day! Have now issued a SAR against them.

[ATTACH]13246[/ATTACH]

 

Hi Scrambled - you have left your name on the letter posted!

[LB145]

Update - sorry to anyone following this thread - have had a couple of real hectic weeks - good from a work point of view but not enough hours in the day to do everything - and the money is allocated before it even arrives on the mat!

 

Rceived a letter from Lloyds (crazily have mislaid it at the moment but hunting frantically for it) saying that they would not have given a credit card without a signature therefore as far as they are concerned the debt is owing. This may have been their final response - must find it!

MHA have sent a leter to say that a local debt collector will be calling.

[LB145]

Received two letters from MHA - one offering reduced payments for 6 motnhs and another giving thre diferent options setlement figures - the thing they are not grasping yet is that they have still never ever sent a CCA agreement as originaly requested in April 2009!

[vint1954]

Send them a copy of your last dispute letter, as sent to LTSB.

[LB145]

Had Phone Call From Mha This Morning - Told Them To Read Their Post!

[Capricorn1601]

Nice one

[LB145]

Anyone heard of (now know who he is and from where) - keeps leaving messages to contact him???

Edited November 3, 2009 by LB145
Found out who he is and from what company

[ajs444]

Subbing, going down the same road!!!