Natwest / CMS Debt

[chrisd09]

Hi Everyone,

 

Firstly i'd like to ask if anyone has the address to CMS in Telford?

I'm trying to pay up a debt but after contacting Natwest they've told me it's with CMS so i'm writing a letter to them now.

I've had no contact from them for ages so don't have an address for them.

 

Secondly, What would the chances of getting an unpaid debt removed from my credit file?

I took out a loan for £2000 some years ago but ended up getting advised by a debt management company not to pay it and that they would sort it out for me (i had other debts too). Needless to say i got into huge trouble with it and ended up sorting it out myself and complaining about the debt management company which ended with me getting all the money back i'd paid them.

The debt company advised me to take out overdrafts, cards etc etc which i didn't do but could prove this is what i was adised.

 

My credit is pretty much ruined from this because all my other debts are paid off apart from this last one which i want to pay off now.

 

If I write them a letter detailing the problems I had with the debt management company, the fact that i never knew it had gone to CMS seeing as i've been paying natwest £30 a month for the last 3 years and that they've not contacted me for those 3 years do you think I could get this removed if i settle the debt in full of whats remaining?

 

I had loads of charges on the loan so could probably get those back as well but i'd rather negotiate getting this taken off my file seeing as it's the last thing outstanding on there.

 

Chris

[deathbycrayons]

Are you paying anything to them at the moment?

[chrisd09]

Yes, I've been paying them ever since I got rid of the debt management company about 3 years ago and before that i was paying them on a regular basis.

The debt management company took over all the payments which is where it went downhill.

It's been going out of my account as a standing order every month.

 

I even increased what i was paying over a year ago but not once have i had a call or letter from CMS saying what i owe or asking me to increase the payments.

 

The only letter i've had is from natwest yesterday after i questioned the loan. They said CMS have it now.

 

Chris

[deathbycrayons]

Have you sent them a CCA request? If so I'd do this before anything else to see if the debt is still enforceable.

[chrisd09]

I've not contacted them until recently when i noticed this was causing me a problem.

I was paying an agreed sum to them to clear the debt and just left it coming out of the bank.

 

How do I go about requesting a CCA? are there letters or templates anywhere? I've not contacted the debt company yet but I did contact natwest to find out what was happening with it.

 

Also, what will the CCA help with and what is it for?

 

If anyone has the address to CMS i'd be grateful as well. I can't seem to find it online.

 

Chris

[deathbycrayons]

A CCA is a consumer credit agreement and has prescribed terms. A valid CCA consists of certain elements, including your signature. If the creditor cannot provide a valid CCA, the debt is unenforceable by law. You will need to send a £1 postal order for the CCA, and send it by recorded delivery. The creditor has 12+2 days to comply.

 

Send them template N from here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[chrisd09]

Do i send this to Natwest or CMS?

 

I noticed the section that says "If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor."

 

Will they forward it onto them istead of contacting me saying for me to contact CMS like they did the last time i wrote to them.

 

Chris

[deathbycrayons]

Well, CMS and natwest are one and the same.

 

Send to this address:

 

Customer Relations Services Unit

1st Floor Drummond House

Redheughs Avenue

South Gyle

Edinburgh

EH11 9JN

[deathbycrayons]

Oh and yes they are obliged to forward it to the appropriate department. Send it off and wait. Check royal mail online to see if it's been delivered and that's when the 12+2 days start.

 

Once you receive something, scan it in, delete any personal details such as signatures, account numbers etc and post it up on here for us to have a look at to see if it is valid or not.

[chrisd09]

Looks like a good scare tactic...

 

They say they're sending it to a debt collections agency then walk round the corner and hand it over to another member of staff but yet deny they deal with it.

 

Fingers crossed something happens with this as it's affecting my credit. I only noticed it because I went into the bank about a mortgage and they said there's something on my account that's causing a problem. I got one credit file and it didn't show but on the other from a different company it was on there.

 

I noticed as well that there's a form on the link you sent about if no contact has been made for sometime as well. They definitely haven't contacted me in the last 3 years and it may be longer.

 

One step at a time i guess.

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

Chris

[chrisd09]

Hi, I requested my contract as mentioned in this post and it was received by the bank and signed for almost 14 days ago.

 

I haven't received anything back from them so what is the next step?

 

I sent the letter as mentioned along with a postal order for £1 and all the address details but nothing has come through from them.

 

Chris

[2Grumpy]

12 working days from the day after delivery you can decide what to do.

 

Take into consideration that NatWest will throw their toys out of the pram if you do decide not to pay them.

 

Most likely they won't send you a copy of your executed agreement. The most likely response will be a reconstructed agreement along with a statement telling you how that fulfills their obligations and you are liable for the debt and should pay up.

 

If there are obvious flaws with the agreement that they send you (e.g. its just a card carrier that cannot be your actual agreement that you would have signed) then I suggested that demanding money on the basis of a "reconstructed" document that was obviously different to an agreement that I would have been asked to sign was no different to demanding money on the basis of a badly forged document.

 

They also sent me an illegible copy of my application form and confirmed that it was part of my agreement. As it's part of the agreement they have got to provide a legible copy. I'm still waiting - and still not making payment because the consumer credit act says that until they have satisfied my request they may not demand payment and I am not required to offer one.

 

Without the original agreement with all the requisite conditions, the alleged debt can be taken as a gift - the banks don't like to be reminded of that and will ignore that in their replies.

 

Grumpy

[2Grumpy]

I've just noticed that you were more interested in getting rid of the comments on your credit file. Most likely - no chance.

 

However if you play hard ball on the documents that you receive you might be able to.

 

If you were to send a SAR and the unlawful charges exceeded the account balance you might have some success by taking them to court to reclaim the charges and putting the removal of adverse comments from your credit file as part of the settlement when you start the claim. By the time you have added 8% statutory interest they might owe you some money, in which case it's difficult to justify the CRA comments.

 

It's also possible that any default notice might be defective, in which case that would help because you might have discharged your liability to them a long time ago.

 

If there's no agreement then there's no agreement for them to make any charges at all. The same applies to PPI - if there was any - or if it was mis-sold.

[chrisd09]

Hi, Many thanks for your post.

It does help knowing what kind of steps I can carry out. I would like the debt wiping off but I will also pay the debt if it came off my credit file.

 

Then again, if the agreement is flawed they've charged me tons of interest over the last years so I want it back.

I explained years ago to natwest that it was a bad decision using a debt company and told them that i'd instructed them to make the decisions (which is my fault I know) but that i wanted to make this right.

 

They knew they had me over a barrell so I've been stuck with this on my file since.

 

I'll do whatever i can to get this taken off the credit file even if it means going to court.

 

When they put the comments on my file I wasn't aware of it and it just appeared. The first time i knew of them was when i went for a mortgage and the bank mentioned it was on there.

I'm going to ask for a copy of the letter which stated they were registering it as a default because i either over looked this letter or didn't bother with it.

 

I'm not saying I don't owe the money to them (i've not told them that though) but i'd like to work to getting these comments off the file.

 

Any help is grately appreciated.

 

Chris

[2Grumpy]

Look at the legal side

 

If they have not followed the process or the default notice is invalid for any reason, they are in the wrong.

 

If they have updated your CRA file incorrectly, that is libel.

 

If you have failed to get credit (including a mortgage) or got a higher rate, you might be able to sue them & get damages.

 

Look carefully and the position of the barrel might change!

 

Do you have the CCA?

Do you have the DN?

 

Can you post them here minus personal details?

[chrisd09]

Hi,

 

I have the CCA somewhere but I think that's in storage but i'm sure I never had a DN sent through.

 

I need to go and get all the paper work out of there so I can challenge this as best as I can.

 

I was hoping natwest would be sending through the agreement for me to look at but i'm guessing this may not happen.

 

It would be nice to get something back from them seeing as they've taken tons of money off me and pretty much ruined my credit file with the default they kindly put on.

 

Chris

[2Grumpy]

You have your original copy of the agreement?

 

Definately send the CCA request & see what they come up with

 

Might be worth doing a SAR to see if they think that they sent a DN

[chrisd09]

I think I do have the original but it's with all the old papers. We moved in with my parents from renting a house so that we could buy one. We went for the mortgage and ended up being told about the default on the account.

That's how i've ended up where i am now and why most of the stuffs stored away.

 

Are there any template letters to do the SAR. I'll give them a day or so to send through this agreement and then send everything else I can.

 

This is the only thing on my credit file causing me a huge problem. If this would go then i'd be able to go and sort out a good mortgage and get out my parents house.

Other than that it's back to renting.

 

It would be nice to get some compensation back as well but obviously at the moment this isn't as important but I have given them tons of fees in the past.

 

Chris

[chrisd09]

I've finally requested an SAR for all the banks I deal with. The main one being Natwest seeing as that's causing the most problems.

 

I requested my contract for what I thought was my loan only for them to reply saying that this was my overdraft account (which I thought i'd paid off).

So, I am now hunting down the papers for the overdraft I paid but that still leaves a loan that has been upaid for about 5 years. It wasn't a huge amount but when you think you haven't been paying this off monthly it's a bit annoying and could be tons now.

I've not been contacted in those 5 years since I got into credit difficulty so I haven't a clue of any details of how much is left. I've had no statements, no letters from them asking what i'm doing, no phone calls...nothing. I'm hoping the SAR will include contracts, statements, any details that might help get this removed from my file and resolve this mess that is natwest.

When i sent in the letter for the contract they just replied "there is no contract for a loan on this account, just an outstanding overdraft". They never said anything like "the loan you are questionning is ?????, details ??? etc".

 

Is there anything I can do if i've not been contacted for ages over a debt? I have moved in those 5 years but only once and i sent letters to all the banks saying i'd moved.

It's knocked me back a bit now with this as I was 99% sure i'd been paying the loan off monthly and setup a standing order on my account with the details they gave me.

 

Hopefully I'll get some charges back as well once all the bits and pieces from the banks come through.

 

Chris

 

I'll see what comes back from the SAR.

[chrisd09]

Hi Everyone,

 

I've got my first contact from Natwest regarding the SAR i sent them.

They sent me a letter confirming they have received it but because I used the secure signature thing from this site they have written back saying they need an original signature.

I've sent them this but put crosses through it so hopefully they can't use it.

 

Secondly, the bank that i have a loan account with that hadn't sent me a statement for over 5 years has now decided to send one since sending this SAR in. Nothing has been paid off on it (which i thought i had) and it looks like this is the next thing to resolve.

 

What would be the best way forward?

Send them a letter offering them half the amount if they clear the debt and remove the default seeing as they're at fault for not giving me the correct information to pay and not sending me statements through or wait for the contract from them and see if i can get the whole thing removed and the default taken off that way?

I'm 90% sure they didn't notify me of the default and if they did they may have sent it to the debt company.

 

Seems like natwest are being the awkward ones up to yet.

 

Chris

[chrisd09]

Hi Everyone,

 

I finally got my contract from natwest.

 

I've blanked out the parts that you said to blank out.

 

They state that there is 4 pages to this but they've only sent me one.

 

Can someone please look ove this and comment?

 

Also something else to mention. They sent me a statement as well for the first time in years and this statement is statement 1. Surely if they'd been sending me other statements it would be higher than statement 1 seeing as this loan has been ongoing since 2003.

 

http://www.day-zign.com/my natwest contract.jpg

 

Thanks

Chris

[gezwee]

You got an agreement and not an application back, consider yourself honoured

 

This'll probably get ripped to bits by more knowledgable people than me.....not least because the PPI and capital repayments are incorrectly set out within the same agreement.

 

Is it worth the tussle with the bank or is there enough PPI, C.I and simple interest to recover to clear the balance?

 

Has the account number changed? Is there any mention of router in statement header or footer? Can you post it up without any identifiers, have a feeling they'll be others on here wanting to take a look at any statements generated by CMS at Telford.

[chrisd09]

My main problem with this account is the default that was registered against me. It's caused me major problems.

Problems like renting a house for 5 years because i've not been able to get it taken off and the mortgage company wouldn't borrow me money.

The debt management company messed things up as well so it's been years of hassle.

I'm still waiting for other documents from all the banks I deal with including natwest to see if i was ever notified of the default so that could be another route.

 

I'm at work at the moment but will post the statement up this evening for people to look at. The strange thing is that I don't think it's a CMS statement but a natwest one even though the debt was passed to CMS.

 

If I could get this default off this account whether by paying off the loan (which i would've done ages ago but thought I was paying it) or by fighting them to get it wiped out then that would be great.

 

Any help is much appreciated and hopefully I can contribute something back to the forum when this is sorted.

 

Many thanks

Chris

[gezwee]

Hi Chris

 

Thats fine, it should be a Natwest statement. CMS are an internal collection dept of Natwest/RBS based in Telford...... I would say 99.9% of all defaulted accounts end up there.

 

Natwest are one of the few that rarely pass to an external DCA so in some respects it does make it easier to track who's doing what with any debt.

 

The problem many of us has faced is that Natwest have a nasty habit of duplicating accounts - original loan balance on their books plus a second 'router' account raised at Telford which is encumbered with 'super' interest.

 

Once you've posted the statement we can take a look to see exactly how much they've been levying on the account.

 

I personally look for the simplest option, if theres limited interest been applied and the sum total after recovering PPI etc will close the balance to a reasonable (and affordable) F&F for you it may be a quick solution with minimal fuss.

 

Gez

[gezwee]

You may want to take a look at the following thread as well

 

Re: walton v rbos

 

Its a lot of reading so keep an evening or 2 free, will give you an indication of what happens to your account at Telford!

 

Gez